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Old 10-19-2016, 10:42 AM   #1
syoun10
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Rubber Membrane under 5th Wheel

Hi all,

I recently bought a 2005 Keystone Everest and am currently camped (long term) at a site in Alabama.

I've had a fair bit of experience with a Class A, a 24ft trailer and a truck camper, but never had a 5th wheel before. I'm developing a few questions that I'd love to ask this group, but one in particular, I must address immediately!

The 5'er has a rubber membrane covering its complete underside. Never seen this on other RVs - is it normal for 5'ers? and what is it's purpose? (Protection from rust or insulation are the only things I can think of).

But there's a problem! One section of the membrane is full of water. The membrane is holding the weight (so far) but sagging a lot. Water dribbles out at one point, and gushes out if I push the membrane up. This part of membrane is at the back where the kitchen sink is, and the color of the water suggests it is gray water. (In fact, I can't even rule out a slight urine smell).

I noticed this after an event a week ago which may, or may not be related.
From some undefined spot under the RV there was a bad smell of sewage. At that point we had been camped about 3 weeks with the black tank gate valve permanently open. I suspected a clog of solids/toilet paper. and put a powerful hose into the toilet. It washed out A LOT of "stuff". Opened and closed the gate valve a few times, and eventually it started to run clear. The smell immediately went away and hasn't returned. I was just glad, but a lingering thought in my mind asked how the smell could have escaped even thought the black tank was full of yuck? Is there an overflow? I would have assumed not, and that the sign of the tank full would have been the toilet not flushing any more down. Of course, if the membrane wasn't there, I could look and see.

It appears to me that the membrane would be difficult to get out (undamaged) and even more difficult put back, though I haven't tried yet.

So... long post (sorry) but here are the key questions...

. Is the membrane normal on a 5'er? And what's it for?
. Is it easy to take out and/or replace? Any hints on best way?
. Is there an overflow on black and/or gray tanks or does a leak indicate a rupture somewhere.
. Anybody else have these problems?
. Any advise?

Thanks in advance for your help.
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Old 10-19-2016, 01:36 PM   #2
gnirwin
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Re: Rubber Membrane under 5th Wheel

the membrane is on most if not all 5th wheels. It is a cover for the "basement" area. When they build the trailer they start with the frame upside down and wrap around the frame and when they turn the trailer right side up they actually build the sidewalls on top of the folded over membrane which makes it hard if not impossible to replace and make it look like it does now. Many people do have to cut into the membrane for repairs and you will see a bunch of posts talking about that. I would think a leak could be the problem, not overflow...
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Old 10-19-2016, 05:15 PM   #3
CaptnJohn
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Re: Rubber Membrane under 5th Wheel

No overflow. Most or all states would call that illegal. Sewer smell while camped could have been caused by keeping the black tank gate open. That gave the municipal sewer system an opening to your 5er. When flushing the toilet your camper is open to the system and if the fan was going actually drawing odors in.
As you have water inside the membrane you have a leak somewhere. Not much to do but get the water out 1st. Before mold starts growing or the job becomes much bigger. Then investigate exactly where it is coming from. I have a couple ideas but know others here are better at explaining and especially about opening and closing the underbelly.
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Old 10-23-2016, 06:30 AM   #4
gearhead
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Re: Rubber Membrane under 5th Wheel

If the membrane (think plastic cardboard) is screwed to the bottom of the frame, as mine is, it is easy to remove. I used a cordless 1/4" drive impact gun. I twisted off a few of the rusted heads. Keystone used self drilling/self tapping screws. From memory either 3/8" or 7/16" head, socket. I got stainless steel replacements screws from Fastenal. I also added light gauge angle "iron" across the membrane from side to side. Just screwed it into the frame like the membrane was. Usually can find it at a hardware store..it has holes and slots to attach through and keeps it light. It will help with the sagging.
Don't leave your black tank valve open. You need a lot of water to flush the solids away. Determine how many days you can go and get the tank near full...4-6 days, then dump it.
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Old 10-27-2016, 01:54 PM   #5
syoun10
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Re: Rubber Membrane under 5th Wheel

thank you to all of you for your valuable input!

Based on yor comments, I cut hole in the membrane (perhaps this is the wrong word?) and found the problem - a cracked gray water tank. I'm going to post an enquiry (with a different, more relevant, title) asking for input on how to replace that. If any of you have comments, I'd really welcome them!

best

steve
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Old 10-27-2016, 04:07 PM   #6
gearhead
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Re: Rubber Membrane under 5th Wheel

Quote:
Originally Posted by syoun10 View Post
thank you to all of you for your valuable input!

Based on yor comments, I cut hole in the membrane (perhaps this is the wrong word?) and found the problem - a cracked gray water tank. I'm going to post an enquiry (with a different, more relevant, title) asking for input on how to replace that. If any of you have comments, I'd really welcome them!

best

steve
Well, OK. You didn't want to unscrew and drop the chloroplast (membrane)? How big a cut did you make?
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Old 10-28-2016, 11:42 AM   #7
jameswbarton
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Re: Rubber Membrane under 5th Wheel

My membrane ha been filled a few times due to sewer plumbing leaks and water line leak. I am surprized it has not torn off. I have a new 2016 Montana HM 375 FL.
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Old 10-31-2016, 06:55 PM   #8
syoun10
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Re: Rubber Membrane under 5th Wheel

Hi, Gearhead,

The reason I didn't drop all the membrane as you suggested is that the gray water tank is positioned right near the rear of the membrane where it isn't bolted to the frame, but disappears under the fiberglass end-cap. Looks like I would have had to somehow take the end-cap off to even see how it is secured there. So I felt I had to cut it at that place, and if I was going to cut it there, I might as well cut it in the other places as well. I also felt I could patch it up later - wouldn't look so good, but underneath the RV who cares? Not sure how to patch it yet, (adhesive tape or bolting on a patch?) Any suggestions would be welcome.

In the meantime, I've found the leak in the tank and am following YouTube advice on how to repair it (using black ABS cement and a fiberglass window-screen mesh - hope it works!). The hole I cut is about 24" x 24".

Jameswbarton, I'm sure the membrane would have torn off if I'd been on the road with it full. But it seems like the leak only started after I camped. Still don't know how it started. Did you take all the membrane off each time you had to repair a leak? If so, was it easy?

Thanks you both for your comments. The collective answers I got to my original post gave me the knowledge and confidence to attempt the repair.
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Old 07-14-2018, 09:21 AM   #9
twoyorkies
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I purchased a used 05 Everest 294L 3 months ago and was having a sewer smell most all of the time! Didn't realize there was a separate tank for the kitchen sink and just found out this morning with the help of my son that there is a separate drain since the owners manual is pretty much worthless. I think it has leak up around the drain entry on top? So if I keep it emptied I might not have a problem? I cut away some of the black plastic but need to cut away some more to get at the tank. I'll post again if I find the leak.
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Old 07-14-2018, 09:54 AM   #10
JRTJH
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This is speculation, so no guarantees, but I think your problem is not a leaking tank, but rather sewer gasses coming into your drain system from the campground sewer system. You say that you just found out that you have a separate tank, so that would indicate to me that you weren't aware of the tank valve, which would have to be open (or you'd have filled the tank long ago). With the open tank valve, and with your trailer connected to the campground sewer, you will have sewer gasses coming into the trailer via the open valve. There is a "P" trap under your sink, but there is also an "open vent" with a small cap under the sink. That cap is a "cheater vent" which opens/closes to allow water to flow through the drain pipes without "gurgling"... There is a thin rubber membrane (flap) in that "cheater vent" that is probably dried out, allowing the campground sewer gasses to flow up the drain vent and into your trailer.

So, to "fix it" first, close the tank valve and only open it when your tank is near full. Drain the tank and close the valve. This will stop the campground sewer gasses from getting into your RV. Second, as an alternative, you can reposition your sewer hose to form a "P" trap which "may/may not" stop the sewer gasses. Third, go to Lowe's/Home Depot and buy a replacement "cheater vent" for your trailer. Remove the one you now have installed and take it with you so you're sure to get the correct replacement.

The above "fixes" should stop your "sewer smell" in the kitchen sink area....
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