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Old 10-25-2019, 01:33 PM   #1
08quadram
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Another soft bullet floor

This forum sure is a godsend. After reading another post about rusty screws on the threshold trim of the doors and soft floor of another member's Bullet and soft floors I decided to go out and investigate mine about a month ago. Sure enough, the screws on both the front and rear door were Rusty. Seem to be the screw closest to the hinge side of the door. A little prodding around with my finger found what I thought was a soft spot just to the front of the bedroom door Which is about 2 inches from the hinge side. Since I had to take the trailer in for some other warranty service I had him check it out. He said it's definitely soft. It's also not the first one he's seen. They are a relatively small dealership and he seen three or four. This was the smallest soft spot he has seen. I told him that's because i was reading this forum and ran across another thread with similar issues. He will be in contact with Keystone to see what they say. He said worst case is the trailer will go back to the factory for repair. Hopefully I'll know something in a couple weeks. We've owned this trailer since the end of June. 3 months.
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Old 10-26-2019, 07:28 AM   #2
skids
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That makes me think about ours, 248RKS. It is hard not to use the threshold as a top step. I try to avoid it because the threshold does not seem to be as firm as it should be - as if it rocks ever so slightly. The linoleum is also not glued down in that 2 x 2 ft (?) area and I wonder now if the glues was affected by water penetration. The floor does seen to be solid...
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Old 10-26-2019, 11:50 AM   #3
08quadram
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Pull the three screws that hold that threshold on and see if they have Rusty threads.
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Old 10-26-2019, 01:00 PM   #4
JRTJH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skids View Post
That makes me think about ours, 248RKS. It is hard not to use the threshold as a top step. I try to avoid it because the threshold does not seem to be as firm as it should be - as if it rocks ever so slightly. The linoleum is also not glued down in that 2 x 2 ft (?) area and I wonder now if the glues was affected by water penetration. The floor does seen to be solid...
Typically, vinyl flooring is not glued down. When the trailer is built, the vinyl flooring and carpet are placed where they should be in the trailer and the flooring is stapled around the perimeter. Then the floor mounted cabinets, interior walls, shower and large "furniture items" such as the bed bases are installed. Finally, the sidewalls are screwed to the floor (which completes the vinyl and carpet installation). I've been told by several "people in the know" that flooring is not glued in place so any twisting, pulling and/or stretching will not tear the flooring. Years ago, there were some pretty significant issues with cracked vinyl flooring. Part of that was blamed on "inferior vinyl that could not remain pliable when extremely cold and partly blamed on expansion/contraction of the floor under the vinyl which was glued in place and split when expansion occurred.

Current trailers, if any adhesive is used in flooring, is only around the perimeter. The majority of the flooring "floats" over the subfloor.
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Old 10-26-2019, 03:36 PM   #5
skids
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Thanks John. I feel better already, although I feel strange when I step on that threshold.
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Old 10-26-2019, 04:23 PM   #6
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My threshold "rocks" when I step on it. I also try not to use it as a step. My thought is that it's the only thing securing the bottom of a "too weak and flimsy" door and I don't want to break the welds in the corners of the door frame. It's not a big deal if I do break one, just a hassle taking the entire door out, welding the threshold back in place and reinstalling/resealing the door. To me, better to just avoid stepping on it LOL

As for the "weak floor" Mine is 1/4" luan-1.5" Styrofoam-1/8" luan laminated sandwich. I don't have any soft spots that I'm aware of, but I do have some areas where the entire floor "sinks" if you step on it "just right"... At least mine has a conventional frame under it (2 I beams with steel crossmembers) The Bullet is built with a Norco "uni-body" preformed and interlocking frame. It's substantially different from the "tried and true" frames that have been used for 60+ years in RV's. Like the "sandwich floor" I wonder what issues we'll find after that type frame has been in use for 10 years ????

It's the "nature of the beast" with ultra-light construction and not a darn thing any of us can do about it except "rebuild it with 5/8" marine plywood when it finally fails... That said, rebuilding it that way will only move the "next weakest link" to the next area to fail.... So...... make the most of what you've got, enjoy the memories you're making and let the trailer "do its thing" for as long as it'll keep you warm and dry.....
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Old 10-30-2019, 09:23 AM   #7
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According to my dealer, the factory does not repair floors on these. They can't without literally taking the entire trailer apart. Easier for them to just build a new one.

IMO, the floors are already starting to rot by the time the trailer gets to the dealer. Rain will bounce off the step to underneath the door where it will seep into the floor. This will be accelerated in wheel wells where you get road splash.

You should feel the floor under the doors and in the wheel wells along the entire length of the trailer. If the floor feels wavy and/or soft, the bottom layer of the "floor sandwich" has detached itself. It won't take hardly any water for this to happen because the top and bottom layers of the sandwich are literally a shoebox cardboard coated luan type of board. Once that cardboard gets wet, it disintegrates. It's like leaving a shoebox or cereal box out in the rain. With the trailer flexing when you tow it, the layer completely separates.

The vinyl is not glued down. It's layed on top of the floor sandwich and then the walls, cabinets, dinette, etc are screwed onto the floor. There should be no bubbles in it. It should be tight and lay flat everywhere in the trailer. If it's bubbled by the door (or really anywhere), then there is likely water damage under it.

The screws that hold down the threshold only penetrate the top layer of the floor sandwich. They are not screwed into anything of substance. Those threads will strip out especially If you keep walking on it. Water can leak into the floor from those screws although I think that is a minor source compared to the way the floor is built. They don't use any caulking for any screws that go into the floor. So, threshold, dinette, bed frame, etc.
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Old 11-06-2019, 08:09 AM   #8
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This is what my dealer found after dropping it off. They have turned it into Keystone, so we will see what they say. A 3-month-old camper should not have this problem.

"Rear entry door threshold is not fully scaled in the corners. Water weeps out at times, over the edge if it starts to build up and not drain fast enough out the bottom of the door. The front entry door is not leaking water, the front cargo door and the exterior floor line moulding is leaking. The flooring is excessively water damaged in cargo area. The off door side cargo door leaks also, which is where the major floor damage is. Removed all the customers items out of cargo area and found the vinyl stained and the soft flooring a on the off door side. Found that the off door side bedroom window is not set right either. The front edge of the window, you can see the seal but the back edge is completely compressed into the sidewall of the unit, not making a seal around the edge. Vinyl flooring, trim, and under liniment in cargo area is completely damaged and will need replaced. Mold is forming in flooring as well."
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Old 11-06-2019, 09:02 AM   #9
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Thanks for the update.


I wonder when it was built. They can sit on the lot for quite a while. I bet if you went on a dealer's lot, you could find most of these with water problems.



I would assume they peeled back the vinyl. You might want to get some photos if you can just so you have some on hand if you have to talk to keystone.



If the cargo area is showing water damage in the top floor layer, the bottom layer will have water damage radiating much farther out. That's what I found with mine. So a fix replacing just top layer damage isn't a fix. IMO with the mold, the only fix is a new unit.


Let us know what happens. Good luck.
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Old 11-06-2019, 10:41 AM   #10
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I have already broached that subject with the service rep at the dealer. He just turned the it into Keystone this morning. We'll see what they have to say in a couple of days.
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Old 11-07-2019, 05:09 PM   #11
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Slight update. I replied to another poster on the keystone Facebook page yesterday relaying my issues in an impartial manner. I was contacted by Keystone rep within an hour and today contacted by a Retail Advisor. They will be in touch with my dealer. We shall see.
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Old 11-07-2019, 05:43 PM   #12
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Sounds positive Keep us informed.
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Old 11-10-2019, 01:17 PM   #13
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Yea, keep us informed. Curious about keystones response
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Old 11-10-2019, 04:11 PM   #14
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I know when we finally find “the one”, it most definitely will not have laminated floors but 5/8 tongue and groove floors.
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Old 11-10-2019, 04:23 PM   #15
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I posted this under "Repairs and Maintenance" on 09-17-2019

"Floor Becoming soft near entry"

My 2018 Bullet 269rls develop 3 roof leaks and the dealer came out and "Repaired "them". Since the wallpaper wrinkled in the bedroom an rear living area, they asked me to get the unit in for warranty work NLT 13 Sep. When I showed the assistant Service Manager the soft spot near my rear door, he told me the floor was rotting out. A half hour in the camper with him discovered another spot in the kitchen, one at the front door, the whole front compartment floor, delaminating of the front fiberglass cap and roof staples working their way out. All this on a camper that was used 3 times, picked it up in May. The A/M told that this job is beyond their capability and would start negotiating with Keystone. I told hem that somebody is going to make this right and it's not coming out of my pocket. Wish me luck

danf....Thank you for the 411.

This is my update.

After taking my Bullet back to the dealer, shortly after my post, they inspected it and said that they wold notify Keystone. After a couple of weeks of silence, I called Keystone myself. They told me that had received info from the dealer and also apologized for the delay of info due to being a few weeks behind in processing claims. I received my first call on 10/08/19 requesting my permission for my Bullet to go back to Indiana. I received a second call for confirmation that my camper would around 11/04/19 plus an email with said confirmation. I was up in Maine hunting last week and got home today and found this thread. I'm going to call the dealer to verify the camper was picked up and then a call out to Keystone to verify it's in their hands.

So 08QUADRAM (Mike), give Keystone a call and if you have to be a Pain in the ***. Hold your ground with your dealer.

I'll update ASAP

Steve
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