almost lost the fifth wheel

[Geoffwhite18]

I've about had it with our 2010 Montana. Is constantly one problem after another. After fixing a leak under the sink, I noticed a crackling noise coming from the circuit breaker panel. I opened it up to find the wire labeled living was bright orange and melted. I took pictures and shut it off. Luckily for keystone I found it before the trailer burnt down with my family in it! I'm sick of electrical recalls and problems. I will post pictures tomorrow.

[Englishman]

I'm glad that you found the issue before anybody was hurt or the you had a fire. Good luck with Keystone i hope they come though for you.

[Geoffwhite18]

Ok I finally got the pictures uploaded. I don't know exactly why the connection on the neutral buss failed, but it caused the wire to heat up. Luckly I was able to hear it arching before it caught anything on fire. I decided not to deal with setting up a service call, paying for the service call and sitting without a tv for who knows how long, so I just fixed it myself. I pulled some wire from behind the panel, cut the bad ends off, and hooked it back up using a different terminal on the neutral buss. Anyway maby it would be a good idea for people to check their breaker panel just to make sure it isn't failing. I tell you guys what, between the breaker panel, electric switch to switch from shore power, and our fridge, this trailer is bound and determined to burn to the ground.

[dzacco]

It's actually very common for a neutral to fail before the hot conductor in houses and commercial services alike. I suppose RV panels are even more vulnerable since there is a lot more vibration between uses. Is the picture color correct? If so, it looks like the rear neutral terminal strip is overheating all of the neutral conductors. Try removing the conductors and check to see if the wires are stripped corectly and the bare copper is under the screw terminal. A careless installer could have pinched the insulation under the screw which could generate heat from a poor connection. It sounds like you handled the burned wire correctly. You can also use an anti oxidant compound suce as Penetrox or on the bare conductors but this usually is not necessary with copper wire.

[azlee56]

some times you all astonish me with your depth of knowledge

[Str8shooter]

Thank you for sharing and glad you avoided disaster. Very scary!

Awhile back I had reason to remove the cover on the breaker panel in our Raptor to find several wires loose in the buss strip. Really poor workmanship.

Others out there should disconnect their power, remove the panel cover and ensure all set screws are tight against each wire.

[Geoffwhite18]

I'm not sure why the other wires are discolored, but I tightened up all my connections. If you look at the bad connection it had 1 more thred on the screw than the others do. I don't think it was ever tightened down. Maybe the heat from this one wire discolored the others? I just can't believe the electric fireplace isn't on its own circuit. It was also on the same circuit that failed.

[SteveC7010]

Originally Posted by dzacco

Is the picture color correct? If so, it looks like the rear neutral terminal strip is overheating all of the neutral conductors.

The more I look at the middle and bottom pics, the more that the rear buss bar looks like ground (not neutral) and all the wires going to it are bare copper. I don't see any insulation on any of those wires. All of them go into the paper in their respective cables which would be normal for the bare copper ground. I think the color is way off because what little bare copper is visible on the front (neutral) bar is the same color as the copper wires on the back bar.

Edit to add: The color of everything else in the pic looks correct so I am also wondering if something has oxidized the copper a bit.

[Geoffwhite18]

Yes. The bar in the back is the ground and they are bare copper. They looked a little funny to me a well, but its just oxidation. I wonder if it was caused by ozone from the arching inside the panel?

[dzacco]

You are correct, the rear row is bare ground wire. I see it coming from the romex cable. The fireplace puts a large draw on the circuit so any loose connection with either the hot or neutral will generate enough heat to burn the insulation.

[Terry&Carol]

#3-4 & 7 front the right on the inside bar don't appear as tight as the rest. I would be giving them a a few turns to make sure they are tight. Especially #7 it looks as loose as the one that was burnt, counting the treads!

[Paddler]

After reading this thread, I when over to the storage lot where we keep our Montana and checked the tightness of all the wired connections in the circuit breaker box. While I didn't find any that were real loose (and no discolored wires, thank goodness) I did get an extra turn or so on some of the fastners.

The next time we took the trailer out...1) I didn't hear the high pitched whine that was normally emitted from my breaker box/convertor. 2) None of the cheap 36 LED matrix lamps I have installed in our trailer developed the irratating partial string blinking that several of them did prior to the tightening. 3) I'm not smelling any of the ozone odor in the bathroom. (where our convertor is located).

So Geoffwhite18 for your post!

[Bob Landry]

One thing that got my attention is that with all of the neutrals being the same size wire, the screw on the one that burned is not in as far as the other set screws. When tightened, screws holding in the same size, bare wire, should be in pretty much the same number of turns.
Also, alternating current has a somewhat "vibrating" property to it and it's not unusual for connections to loosen over long periods of time. Checking screw terminals would be a good item to add to the annual checklist.