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Old 04-04-2017, 03:57 PM   #1
Ozarkkawi
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Need input on new passport

After a year of debating, we have decided to buy a camper. We had almost decided on another brand when I came across a passport 2670bh on a local dealers website. Great looking camper with as close to all the features we wanted as we have found. I'm going to look at it tomorrow. My research on passport has been mixed reviews. I thought I would go right to the source. Your opinions on your passport not just this model would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 04-04-2017, 04:51 PM   #2
sourdough
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Welcome to the forum! Someone with direct experience will be along shortly. IMO Keystone will be as good as any other manufacturer at any given price point....and probably better than most.
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Old 04-04-2017, 05:36 PM   #3
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I'm New here but we have that exact model and I think it's a perfect size with plenty of storage space. We've camped out in the driveway in some pretty cold temperatures and a few more times lately. We'll be leaving Friday for the first of many trips planned so anything I can answer about this model, ask away. Dan
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Old 04-04-2017, 05:37 PM   #4
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Need input on new passport

We are on our 2nd Passport. Started with a 238ML and upgraded to our current 2810BH. It is similar to the 2670 with a bigger bathroom but no outside kitchen. We have been real happy with ours. Most rigs from any manufacturer have some minor bugs that may need to be repaired or fixed during the warranty period. I've not had any major issues with ours. A very thorough delivery inspection with a good dealer is important no matter what brand you buy. Let us know what you decide. Have fun looking.


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Old 04-04-2017, 06:02 PM   #5
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For statistical sake, take the reviews you read on the www with a grain of salt. Review threads within enthusiast forums, especially when brand specific, are like a normal distribution (bell) curve. Members devoted to the brand will join, engage the community frequently, and provide opinions that favor their buying decisions. I call these people the +2 deviators. On a bell curve, they would represent approx 2% of the ownership population.

On other side of the bell curve exists a vocal population that tend to scrutinize the product for whatever the failure may be, no matter how small or large. I call them the -2 deviators as they represent the opposite 2% of the ownership population.

What people fail to realize is that there are 4 deviations between these groups, or in statistical analysis, 95% of the ownership population.

This means that 95% of the population of any given product are those who buy it, utilize it, and remain off the www review grid.

So, to get an accurate assessment of quality on a Keystone branded coach, you'd realistically have to survey a sample population of owners (past and present).

The key thought is "reading several negative reviews doesn't necessarily represent the majority of owners". Keystone makes thousands of coaches each year. A few bad apples are expected. Design flaws will always be there. Owners regrets too. However, in the end, if you found a unit and floorplan that makes you happy, take the leap. It's an RV, not an investment.
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Old 04-04-2017, 06:39 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by busterbrown View Post
For statistical sake, take the reviews you read on the www with a grain of salt. Review threads within enthusiast forums, especially when brand specific, are like a normal distribution (bell) curve. Members devoted to the brand will join, engage the community frequently, and provide opinions that favor their buying decisions. I call these people the +2 deviators. On a bell curve, they would represent approx 2% of the ownership population.

On other side of the bell curve exists a vocal population that tend to scrutinize the product for whatever the failure may be, no matter how small or large. I call them the -2 deviators as they represent the opposite 2% of the ownership population.

What people fail to realize is that there are 4 deviations between these groups, or in statistical analysis, 95% of the ownership population.

This means that 95% of the population of any given product are those who buy it, utilize it, and remain off the www review grid.

So, to get an accurate assessment of quality on a Keystone branded coach, you'd realistically have to survey a sample population of owners (past and present).

The key thought is "reading several negative reviews doesn't necessarily represent the majority of owners". Keystone makes thousands of coaches each year. A few bad apples are expected. Design flaws will always be there. Owners regrets too. However, in the end, if you found a unit and floorplan that makes you happy, take the leap. It's an RV, not an investment.
I'm not sure how to take your "analysis" of reviews on a website or if you were referring to my post but.........

My remarks endorsing Keystone are certainly NOT an effort to "defend" my purchase of one - as if I made a poor choice then need to somehow vindicate my decision. Lord knows I have had more trouble than most with this unit yet I still recommend the brand. Why? Because I'm objective. Because I look at the big picture. Because I talk to other folks that own them. And, primarily because I know that I bought an anomaly.

I am always looking at units being offered by various manufacturers. I find, most of the time, that the Keystone products will be a better value at any given price point. That's my opinion but it's based on fact, research and input from others - not some need to "defend" my purchase. If I thought there was a "better something" out there I'd give this one away, as I've done all my boats (virtually new), my MILs house etc. I have NO need to vindicate anything I do and feel no need to do so.

Those that give honest appraisals in favor of their ownership of a Keystone product I suspect FAR exceeds the 2% fringe element you imply. I, and I suspect most other happy owners, do not appreciate being categorized as "unhappy owners" unwilling to tell the truth so we have go give opinions that "favor" our poor decision.

I doubt (hope) you didn't mean to imply that.....but you did.
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Old 04-04-2017, 11:04 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by sourdough View Post
I'm not sure how to take your "analysis" of reviews on a website or if you were referring to my post but.........

My remarks endorsing Keystone are certainly NOT an effort to "defend" my purchase of one - as if I made a poor choice then need to somehow vindicate my decision. Lord knows I have had more trouble than most with this unit yet I still recommend the brand. Why? Because I'm objective. Because I look at the big picture. Because I talk to other folks that own them. And, primarily because I know that I bought an anomaly.

I am always looking at units being offered by various manufacturers. I find, most of the time, that the Keystone products will be a better value at any given price point. That's my opinion but it's based on fact, research and input from others - not some need to "defend" my purchase. If I thought there was a "better something" out there I'd give this one away, as I've done all my boats (virtually new), my MILs house etc. I have NO need to vindicate anything I do and feel no need to do so.

Those that give honest appraisals in favor of their ownership of a Keystone product I suspect FAR exceeds the 2% fringe element you imply. I, and I suspect most other happy owners, do not appreciate being categorized as "unhappy owners" unwilling to tell the truth so we have go give opinions that "favor" our poor decision.

I doubt (hope) you didn't mean to imply that.....but you did.
Good for you for being a +2 deviator. But I was not directing my comments towards you in anyway. They were thoughts given to the OP on how he/she should develop a metrics for brand reviews. GaussIan distribution will always be king when it comes to internet product reviews. Doesn't matter if it's an amazon site or an RV brand forum. Don't need to explain why. Furthermore, please do not reply to this response as the OP has the stage and is asking for opinions.

To the OP. I own a Bullet, the Passport's fraternal twin. These coaches are engineered to ultralight standards. Weight is a priority and can be seen in quality of the end product when comparing against more premium RV models. Here is a recent thread discussion on build quality of the Passport line. Remember, this is just thread with a few active members voicing opinions, including me. You will not hear from the 95% of those who bought campers, used them on countless trips, may or may not have had issues, and never voiced an opinion.

Again buy a unit and floor plan that makes you and your family happy. And make some good camping memories. Good luck.
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Old 04-05-2017, 04:42 AM   #8
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Bought a Passport 2890RL on June 1, 2012 spent 78 nights in it between then and October of 2015.... It was what it was... an ultralight trailer with ULTRA LIGHT furnishings and fixtures... Very little storage, 14" "C" tires,.... you get the picture...

End result... it served its purpose and we waved bye to it as we pulled away in the new Cougar...

The thing to remember about all RV's.... you really do get what you pay for... at least in fittings, fixtures and furnishings... Do yourself a favor and compare a Passport to a Cougar and a Cougar to a Montana or Alpine... even an ultralight to a standard trailer.... there is a difference...
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Old 04-05-2017, 05:03 AM   #9
sourdough
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Good for you for being a +2 deviator. But I was not directing my comments towards you in anyway. They were thoughts given to the OP on how he/she should develop a metrics for brand reviews. GaussIan distribution will always be king when it comes to internet product reviews. Doesn't matter if it's an amazon site or an RV brand forum. Don't need to explain why. Furthermore, please do not reply to this response as the OP has the stage and is asking for opinions.

To the OP. I own a Bullet, the Passport's fraternal twin. These coaches are engineered to ultralight standards. Weight is a priority and can be seen in quality of the end product when comparing against more premium RV models. Here is a recent thread discussion on build quality of the Passport line. Remember, this is just thread with a few active members voicing opinions, including me. You will not hear from the 95% of those who bought campers, used them on countless trips, may or may not have had issues, and never voiced an opinion.

Again buy a unit and floor plan that makes you and your family happy. And make some good camping memories. Good luck.
I probably misinterpreted your original post. I've sent you a PM.
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Old 04-07-2017, 12:43 PM   #10
Ozarkkawi
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So I got look at the passport and moved it to the top of the list. But the dealer I went to, would not budge on price and the one I had found with the sharper price has sold. I thought I read somewhere that the passport has a twin running under a different brand name. Is this true? The wife stating to get impatient and I don't want to get into a deal that' I know is not good. Thanks.
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Old 04-07-2017, 01:06 PM   #11
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I think the bullet is pretty much the same as the passport. We're just getting ready to pull out of the driveway for our first long weekend so I'll be able to answer your questions about how we like it. Good luck and stay safe. Dan
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Old 04-07-2017, 02:19 PM   #12
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You might look at the Bullet 272bhs or Outback 276ubh.

I think Bullet is pretty comparable to the Passport but the floorplan on the one I listed is just a tad different and no outside kitchen. The Outback I listed is almost identical to the one you are looking at but is about 700 lbs heavier and a foot longer. Below is a link to the Outbacks. Just go to Keystonerv.org, select travel trailers and pull up whatever model you want then scroll down and you can see the floorplans and specs for each model.

http://www.keystonerv.com/outback/
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Old 04-07-2017, 04:12 PM   #13
campdaddy
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Just purchased a new one...really like it!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozarkkawi View Post
After a year of debating, we have decided to buy a camper. We had almost decided on another brand when I came across a passport 2670bh on a local dealers website. Great looking camper with as close to all the features we wanted as we have found. I'm going to look at it tomorrow. My research on passport has been mixed reviews. I thought I would go right to the source. Your opinions on your passport not just this model would be greatly appreciated.
We just purchased a new Passport 2670bh and really like it a lot. Great size for family and grandchildren as well as the options it offers. Also pulls very well with our older 1/2 ton pickup. In our experience so far, it's as good as any out there. As with any camper there are learning curves and we have found a few things different from previous campers, but nothing that would change our minds on the purchase. I think you will be more than happy with the 2670bh! This is a great site to learn and ask questions, so fire away. Happy Camping!!
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Old 04-07-2017, 05:43 PM   #14
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I think somewhere on this site it was a Bullet. Not sure check it out.
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Old 04-07-2017, 05:54 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Ozarkkawi View Post
So I got look at the passport and moved it to the top of the list. But the dealer I went to, would not budge on price and the one I had found with the sharper price has sold. I thought I read somewhere that the passport has a twin running under a different brand name. Is this true? The wife stating to get impatient and I don't want to get into a deal that' I know is not good. Thanks.
Yes, I can confirm the Bullet line is the Passport's twin Each Passport model has a practically identical Bullet model of similar specs. In your case, it's the Bullet 272BHS. I'm pretty sure assembly takes place in the same factory. Interior trim and color schemes may be your deciding factor.

Biggest difference I noticed was considerably larger GVWR of the Bullet. Dry weights are pretty close to each other. Tires are the same size, axles are too (I assume). With that being said, it's always a positive when your trailer's carrying capacity goes up by 500 lbs.

I don't know what part of the country you're buying in but here in the midwest, there are several wholesale dealers that publish their pricing. Doing a quick search, I found the 2670BH to be competitively priced in the mid 19K's. The Bullets were very close at just below 20K. Some local dealers are 3-4K higher than the wholesalers I found.

Before I purchased my Bullet last year, I was back and forth between a Passport model and the Bullet I own now. My dealer quoted the price of the Bullet as the same as the Passport. He honored his mistake after I showed up at the dealership to sign papers.

Ultimately, either brand will make you happy. The best part of the buying process is the anticipation of your first trip out! Good luck with your quest.
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