Are the premium models really better?

[1jeep]

Even in New England we were glad to have the second AC, on a trailer over 32' I think it is very much needed.

when I pointed out to my wife that we could have a washer/dryer her response was ...well I wont post that here...lol

AS far as needing a premium trailer If we were full timing or doing long trips it might be nice.

Please post when you do the second awning, I really want to do one, but hesitate to take that first step.

[Face Down]

Originally Posted by 1jeep

Please post when you do the second awning, I really want to do one, but hesitate to take that first step.

I got the part list needed and the dimensions from a Raptor 375TS for the mounting locations. I just need the cash and the time and to finish a bunch of other projects I don't have done. I decided in Feb to sell my perfectly fine golf cart and buy a newer stock version and completely build a new one.

[Steve S]

I personally think that it doesn't matter which one that you buy as it all comes down to how you you take care of it. It's amazing at how many units are on the lots that are only a few yrs old that haven't been looked after and it really shows!
There's so many people that treat their trailers like a toy but yet they forget to maintain them and keep them clean. I've always found that with an RV the biggest problem that people have is staying on top of things and taking care of their investment.

[theeyres]

The subject has pretty well been beat to death but I guess I'll still add one more needless comment: is a BMW better than a Chevy? It's all in what you want and can afford. Better? No. Just fancier and more deluxe. Many of us will be very happy with our Chevys...but if you want a BMW, go for it.

[Customer]

Thank you all for your comments, they have been helpful.

Yes, BMW does make a better product than Chevrolet. As a person who currently owns both and has owned them in the past, I feel qualified to make that assessment. However, they both have their purposes. I couldn't tow a 5er with a BMW.

Now I need to decide if Keystone makes a better product.

[BlueknightWI]

I couldn't agree more. However, there are also some units that I swear were thrown together in the last half hour of a work week. And, the staff had already started drinking beforehand. Those units should be brought back to the factory and fixed completely. But yes, we keep our campers clean and maintained as if we are going cross country each time we head out.

Originally Posted by Steve S

I personally think that it doesn't matter which one that you buy as it all comes down to how you you take care of it. It's amazing at how many units are on the lots that are only a few yrs old that haven't been looked after and it really shows!
There's so many people that treat their trailers like a toy but yet they forget to maintain them and keep them clean. I've always found that with an RV the biggest problem that people have is staying on top of things and taking care of their investment.

[Mike484]

Originally Posted by Steve S

I personally think that it doesn't matter which one that you buy as it all comes down to how you you take care of it. It's amazing at how many units are on the lots that are only a few yrs old that haven't been looked after and it really shows!
There's so many people that treat their trailers like a toy but yet they forget to maintain them and keep them clean. I've always found that with an RV the biggest problem that people have is staying on top of things and taking care of their investment.

Yep, see this all the time.

Someone buys a 70,000 mile set of tires, never does an alignment, doesn't check air pressure, and never rotates, gets 30,000 miles and says the tires were junk. Someone else buys the same tires, keeps up with the alignment, air pressures, and regularly rotates them, gets 80,000 miles and swears they are the best tires they ever bought.

BUT, there is always the possibility of manufacturer defects in everything you buy, how many times have you purchased something and straight out of the box it didn't work or was missing parts? Money doesn't always buy you good quality, every automotive dealership has cars in their shop be repaired, no matter how expensive the car is.

[Rick52]

I did my homework for about a 1 or 2 years, finally decided on a fusion 371. I know it's not a super expensive unit, but falls into the premium priced units msrp's at around a 100k, got mine for 63k, don't know why they just don't say 63k, because I'd feel ripped off it I had paid anymore..... At a glance they look great, crawl around underneath and look around at the details, which you don't notice until your home, and you'll find that it's really pretty shoddy workmanship. It seems there is no set assembly practice in place, sort of like a track house, depends on who's pounding the nails any given day, whose running the wiring etc, not much quality control. Brought mine home from northern Calif to southern Calif, about a 350 mile drive. As I'm backing into my driveway the brakes are making a scraping sound. A few days later, when I had a chance, I started pulling tires and drums, parts are falling out everywhere, magnets, adjusters, springs, etc. on the right side. Left side intact but the rear seals never installed in the drum tight so they stayed on the axle as I pull the drum off, grease all over the brake assembly on both left wheels, I realize this is dexters fault, but none the less. Also where the wires feed come down to the electric brakes from the underbelly, they were left so long they were scraping on the tires and had worn thru the insulation down to the copper by the time I got home, this is keystones fault. I have to say everything inside worked, hot water, air,heat, frig, mw, water pump, slides incommand system, no leaks, and finish on everything is fine. On the whole I think they could spend just a little more time and make an outstanding unit, more quality control is needed. Many of the little things that bug me can be fixed an someone else may not even care or notice. I would caution anyone that is picking up a unit that's at a dealership far from Indiana, to check the brakes asap. You don't know how the driver that delivered it treated it during the trip. I have a feeling mine was driven over the rockies to Turlock at break neck speeds and the dealership had no idea the brakes were trashed.......

[gtsum2]

I think they r all about the same. I have a 345 chrome msrp for 110, got it for 62. Better than most I think and no real issues after 7000 miles. I do like the grand design momentums though...but they r much bigger and heavier and too much for my 3500 srw


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dcg9381]

Originally Posted by Mike484

BUT, there is always the possibility of manufacturer defects in everything you buy, how many times have you purchased something and straight out of the box it didn't work or was missing parts? Money doesn't always buy you good quality, every automotive dealership has cars in their shop be repaired, no matter how expensive the car is.

There is a difference.
When you buy a TV, 99% it'll work out of the box. Mostly not assembled by humans.

When you buy a new car, 97% that it won't see the shop due to an actual failure in the first 12 months. Again, mostly not assembled by humans.

When you buy an RV between $10k and $2M, chances are that it will have issues that will bring it back within the first 60 days. Assembled by humans being paid, well, probably being paid a lot less than an auto union worker.

Any automobile dealer you can get fixed nationwide. That's not true of of the Keystone RV brand... I'm not talking about what the paper says, I'm talking about the reality of getting it fixed.


Buy a Forest River, or even the Grand Design, I'd expect issues. Thare are, however, differences in warranty and service.

[TomHaycraft]

This thread has been a good read. Speaks volumes to the quandary I'm in now. I've got the urge to upgrade, but am not ready to spend money on something that I'll have to look over my shoulder and wonder, "what next?".

On Saturday, I looked at a Grand Design Reflection 303RLS. Length and general floor plan are what we want. Corporate philosophy and warranty, got my attention. But I feel they cut a corner by not allowing 3 steps up to the bedroom in the design. Just 2 large steps, for me to rebuild them into 3, would set the first step several inches into the opening of the door. With a wife who is trying to buy time before knee replacements, it is just about a show stopper.

I looked at a comparable Jayco. Standing water in the storage compartment "tray" just inside the door. I went home. It all made my little "entry level" Springdale seem okay, just a bit hot in July, August and part of September here in Texas!

[JRTJH]

Tom,

Our first fifth wheel was a Springdale 242. Not sure if you remember, but we went camping at our favorite out of the way spot a few years ago and within an hour of arriving at the campground, a "freak afternoon thunderstorm" blew in and dropped a tree on the roof of our trailer. Well, that ruined our trip, no sense trying to camp in wet weather with a roof that looked like it got hit by a porcupine, so we headed home.

We used that situation to "move up a bit" both in size and in quality. After looking at almost everything that's on the market, we finally settled on a Cougar XLite. With the exception of the air conditioner and the remote control "brain box", it's been a troublefree trailer.

While everyone has their "wishes" and "impressions" and so much more that comes into play, if you haven't given the Cougar line and the two "light weight" adaptions, the Cougar XLite (east coast) and Cougar Half Ton (west coast) a look, you might be encouraged with what you see. The two "big differences" I see between the Cougar and it's "lightweights" is the headroom in the upper deck is much less with the lightweights and the floor is a "foam sandwich" on the lightweights while it's a "solid subfloor" on the Cougar.

To me, "quality" isn't the addition of extra features or bigger, prettier components, it's the way whatever is used is "put together" both in craftsmanship and in thoughtful purpose. Those features are very hard to find today, even in the "best" (most expensive) brands.

As always, I'm not affiliated with Keystone, any of their dealers and don't have any stock in the company. I'm just a satisfied customer who thinks they make a good product.

[gearhead]

x2 on the Cougar XLite. I just got tired of bumping my head getting in and out of bed. Otherwise our 28SGS was a fine 5th.
If our Montana self destructs I think I would look at a Northwoods. No dealers nearby so that would have to be resolved.

[CaptnJohn]

Originally Posted by TomHaycraft

This thread has been a good read. Speaks volumes to the quandary I'm in now. I've got the urge to upgrade, but am not ready to spend money on something that I'll have to look over my shoulder and wonder, "what next?".

On Saturday, I looked at a Grand Design Reflection 303RLS. Length and general floor plan are what we want. Corporate philosophy and warranty, got my attention. But I feel they cut a corner by not allowing 3 steps up to the bedroom in the design. Just 2 large steps, for me to rebuild them into 3, would set the first step several inches into the opening of the door. With a wife who is trying to buy time before knee replacements, it is just about a show stopper.

I looked at a comparable Jayco. Standing water in the storage compartment "tray" just inside the door. I went home. It all made my little "entry level" Springdale seem okay, just a bit hot in July, August and part of September here in Texas!

I'm not certain the GD303 RLS is the exact floor plan as the 2016 Cougar 303RLS but the Cougar does have 3 steps to the bedroom. Bought ours in Dec and headed to FL for the maiden voyage. We are extremely pleased with ours.

[C130]

I used to own a 2011 Fuzion 322 Touring Edition and we really liked it plus we never had one single issue with it. I got the urge to get something bigger after going on vacation last summer and we just so happened to be staying where a rally was going on by some Grand Designs owners. My wife and I got to see basically all of their models and liked their toy haulers a lot.

I came home from vacation and immediately sold my Fuzion and my wife and I looked at every toy hauler made I think. My plan was to buy what we liked the best and not any particular brand. We kept coming back to the Grand Designs Momentum and ended up buying a new 2015 385TH. We wanted a rear half bath, auto leveling, fireplace, king bed, large cargo space, and a few other features. We love the 385TH but personally I think they are all the same as far as build quality. You can get a great one or you can be unlucky and get one that has lots of issues. I keep mine stored inside a fully enclosed storage unit and I really think that helps prevent a lot of issues. I did a very thorough PDI and stayed the night in the trailer with the intention of leaving the dealer with zero issues and it's worked out great so far. We looked at the slightly cheaper Momentum's (M Class) and thought the overall build quality was about the same but it just lacked some of the features we wanted and some small upgrades that might not matter to some people. I'm not a fan of Lippert and unfortunately a lot of manufacturers use Lippert so they all have a lot of the same issues, including Grand Designs. Good luck in your decision.

[socalhd]

I am learning new is not always better. My last rig was a 2006 Sierra 37SP. by Forest River. Aluminum sided/ no graphics and no real Frills. I bought it new in 2006 and did not have any issues from the day I took delivery until 2009 when we loaded up the bikes and went to Sturgis. Prior to Sturgis we took a 2 week trip to Kansas with no issues. The sky fell in Sturgis and we were wounded from the hail damage. I lost an axle on that same trip. All was repaired by insurance but it never seemed the same. But structurally and appliance wise we never had an issue. We sold it because of the age of the unit and likelihood of failures.
After a year we shopped for new and went thru every unit out there finally deciding on the Fusion FZ342. We love the 342 and have owned for a year,but we've had more warranty issues with it than we ever did the Sierra. I feel the Sierra, Interior wise was built with more care, and now with just over a year, we have the dreaded Dometic 310 toilet leak. Warranty will get it taken care of but I never had these issues with the Sierra. There are many pros and cons I could list. The Fuzion is a definite upgrade from the Sierra, it is prettier and has more frills. It also tows noticeably better than the Sierra. But in some ways I miss the Sierra. My opinion, shop and find the floorplan you like best, then decide if you want more frills. Trust when I say whatever unit you get, you want the Auto Leveling system

[1jeep]

Like SOCALHD im slowly learning its a gamble when you buy new no matter what brand. We sold our 2006 outback travel trailer last year for a 2015 carbon 327. While we like the trailer and it does have what we need, it feels like it has a peel on the outside that is slowly coming off. Our old trailer had zero issues in all the years we owned it. This one so far here is the list, Lost front bedroom window on first trip(it was never opened by us). Furnace had to have Board replaced, fridge never seems to get real cold, freezer does but im still keeping drinks in a cooler. second Ac unit came unplugged up in the ceiling.
While these items were covered under warranty it has been a real hassle bringing it back to the dealer each time.

After a year in the trailer I can say we knew we bought a mid level 5th wheel toy hauler, we still like the trailer but if we bought the model up it would have had the auto level and second awning over the rear entry door.

[Desert185]

In comparing this thread to others about tires, wet bolts, wheel bearings/seals and brakes, I'm thinking the biggest difference in premium vs standard is mostly bling. So, purchasing a mid-level brand may be the best bang for the buck (if that concern is important). Whatever one buys, there are still robust enhancing accessories that need to be accomplished that might be more practical in the long run than the added weight and expense of features that add more to form than function.

I'm certainly guilty of accessorizing, but at least I accessorize with what works for me and mine. Thankfully, the wife and pup concur while being part of the process. Also thankfully, there is a wide variety of options one can choose to suit one's needs and desires regardless of opinions to the contrary. Ain't capitalism and freedom great?

[CaptnJohn]

Originally Posted by Desert185

In comparing this thread to others about tires, wet bolts, wheel bearings/seals and brakes, I'm thinking the biggest difference in premium vs standard is mostly bling. So, purchasing a mid-level brand may be the best bang for the buck (if that concern is important). Whatever one buys, there are still robust enhancing accessories that need to be accomplished that might be more practical in the long run than the added weight and expense of features that add more to form than function.

I'm certainly guilty of accessorizing, but at least I accessorize with what works for me and mine. Thankfully, the wife and pup concur while being part of the process. Also thankfully, there is a wide variety of options one can choose to suit one's needs and desires regardless of opinions to the contrary. Ain't capitalism and freedom great?

I agree with much of what you said. Our 2016Cougar 303RLS has had no problems since purchased last Dec to speak of. Not much "bling" could be added. The main difference I see in all keeps me from considering any "lite" models.

[dcg9381]

I will say that some of the premium brands get actual non-cable slides (weigh more). For me, the Accu-slide cable slides have been problematic, where as all of my other experience with hydraulic/electric slides has been pretty good.