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Old 01-22-2013, 03:32 PM   #1
Onthemove
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New Cougar TT

I just bought a new 2012 5.7 V8 Toyota Tundra Towing Package. The next day I bought a New 2012 Cougar 25RLSWE. Brought it home from the lot and now waiting for nicer weather to take it out. Now I’m having second thoughts about the size of the truck. I have a WD hitch. I have only towed 30 miles and it seemed to pull ok but it was empty. Do you think I'll be ok with this setup? Please say YES.
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Old 01-22-2013, 04:29 PM   #2
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What is the length of the TT and the GVWR of the TT?
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Old 01-22-2013, 05:30 PM   #3
Ken / Claudia
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I mainly want to say hello, since we are almost neighors. We just purchased our trailer in Nov. love it so far. One test would be trying your set up out on at least 1 trip over a nearby pass. I have been RVing about 30 years and gave up on 1/2 ton tow vehicles. 35mph up, over Mt Hood is not safe or fun. I want to stay at 50-55 on highways. That being said newer trucks due have better towing than my 70s pick ups did. Good Luck with what ever you do.
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Old 01-22-2013, 05:53 PM   #4
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My guess is you're right about second thoughts. Some of the numbers for that TT don't make sense. It's gross is 7800 Lbs and 29'6" length but shows a hitch of 480 Lbs which is just over 6, typical is 12 to 15%. Which will put you into the 1000 Lb range for hitch weight, which may be pushing it on the Tundra dependent on passengers and cargo in the bed, but I'm no expert on 1/2 tons or Toyota. Think you really need to load everything up for a trip and hit the scales then hit the calulator and see where it all plays out. In the end, you are the only one that can make the final decision.
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Old 01-22-2013, 08:44 PM   #5
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I agree with what the previous poster stated - search on here for how to weigh your trailer and do the math yourself. Only you can decide.

That said, I have a similar configuration to yours. My TT is slightly heavier/longer trailer than yours, but only by a couple of hundred pounds GVWR and 30" or so.

We travel with the bed of our truck empty, so the only additional weight subtracted from my payload is the passengers (wife, 2 young boys and two medium-small dogs) and my extra girth. We're right on the line for payload (~1400lbs), despite the fact I'm only at the 80% mark for towing capacity (GVWR is 8200lbs out of 10300lbs max tow cap).

Given that your trailer's hitch weight is lighter by a few hundred pounds (630lbs dry - in practice, it depends greatly on how you load it up, though), and that it looks like it might just be two of you given which trailer you've selected, you might fare slightly better on the payload numbers than I do. My one concern might be the wheelbase of your truck. If it's a Dual Cab or Crew Cab or long bed, you're likely to be OK. If it's a regular cab with a standard bed, you might have some issues with sway due to the short wheelbase. Hopefully, you have a WDH which can help a lot in that department if configured correctly.

We've been on two trips with ours so far, one through central PA. Power and stopping wise, I haven't had any problems towing through some of the more mountainous areas. It does downshift going up steep hills but I've never had any problems keeping right around the posted speed limit, and when manually downshifting going downhill, the engine does a reasonable job with only occasional taps from the brakes.
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:37 PM   #6
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The trailer is 30 foot and my Truck is a double cab 4X4 standard bed 6.5 feet. It will be Just my wife and I. I also will carry a wooden box with a Honda Eu2000 generator and 5 gal. of gas about 150 lbs. at most. I don't know what the trailer weight empty is, or the weight when loaded. I don't plan on carrying a lot of water and having my holding tanks empty when traveling. I hate to sell either one, the truck or trailer because they are new and I will take a big loss. Thank you for your replies. I should have done my homework.....
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Old 01-23-2013, 05:58 AM   #7
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You will be fine. The Tundra has more then enough ability to tow the spec'd trailer. WDH is a must, I also run air ride 5000s.

I recomend visiting and Tundratalk.net Lots of great Tundra tow reviews and also help if you have any questions.

Do not get rid of the Tundra.
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Old 01-23-2013, 07:21 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Onthemove View Post
I just bought a new 2012 5.7 V8 Toyota Tundra Towing Package. The next day I bought a New 2012 Cougar 25RLSWE. Brought it home from the lot and now waiting for nicer weather to take it out. Now I’m having second thoughts about the size of the truck. I have a WD hitch. I have only towed 30 miles and it seemed to pull ok but it was empty. Do you think I'll be ok with this setup? Please say YES.
On the move,
I have a similiar set up. I have a 2011 Tundra 4X4 DC 5.7 V8 and I pull a Cougar 30RLS. The TT dry weight is around 6800 (according to the Keystone web site). Even fully loaded I don't think I would come close to the just shy of 10,000 pound towing capacity that my Tundra has. I just purchased my TT as well but I've put about 2000 miles on mine with no trouble. About 200 miles of that was in the mountains. A few things to think about.
Make sure your WD hitch is set up properly. I use an Equalizer hitch that has built in sway.
Keep tank levels to a minimum when traveling. (Just a few gallons of fresh water) unless you are going to dry camp.
I plan on installing air bags just to help with a little rear end sag but this will be mainly for a heavy boat that I tow as well.

Your Tundra should have no problem with the TT you have.
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Old 01-23-2013, 09:50 AM   #9
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Thank you all so very much you helped me a lot. Now I can start breathing again. I really did NOT want to get rid of either one. I think I will get some air bags for the truck. Now just wait for some nice weather and we can start enjoying the good life.
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Old 01-23-2013, 10:15 AM   #10
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I know what you're going thru/thinking. I originally bought a 2011 Tundra with the 4.6L engine. Towed our small 19' trailer like it want there. Then we made the major mistake of going to a Feb RV show. We upgraded to a 29REV Cougar. I upgraded to a 2012 Tundra 5.7L. Even after the upgrade I wondered whether I made a mistake and should have gone to a GMC 3/4 ton truck. Here are some observations from my experience...

My 32' TT tows just fine with the Tundra. Have not done the Rockies but have done Smokies and Blue Ridge and no problems whatsoever.

I have a Hensley WDH....guaranteed to eliminate sway. Have had zero issues with sway and have had many many chances where it would have popped up. Hensley really makes a difference...from my point of view I didn't want to be standing by my TT on its side and wish I spent the extra money for the Hensley.

There is no way in the world a Tundra can safely tow its max trailer weight...assuming 15% or so is on the hitch. You will violate payload limits.

It is just my wife and I, 2 bikes, and our 4 lb Yorkie in the truck. I think we can take 1 more person and still be under payload. Axle weights and total weight are no issues at all. Payload is the limiting factor.

Trailer hitch weight was 755 in the brochure. Our actual is 940. Go to the scales....get the data.

BTW..toyota bed rails and their bike accessory for the rails is great. Super easy to take bikes. I use some straps on the rear wheels to keep the back of the bikes from bouncing around.

I seriously thought in Dec about going to 3/4 ton but the reality is I'm now convinced I am in the Tundra's sweet spot. I am sticking with my Tundra. Love this truck!!

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Old 01-23-2013, 10:22 AM   #11
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We just purchased a 2012 Keystone Vantage 32FLS. It has an empty weight of 6800 # and a heavy tongue weight of 1035. We traded a 21 foot TT and thought the Vantage looked way to big to be towed by our 2012 Tundra 5.7 DC with tow pkg. The dealer was convinced he's seen Tundra's tow more so he had the shop quickly install a WD hitch, but without sway control, and we took it for about a 15 mile ride on both secondary roads and a 10 mile stretch of Route 91 at 65 MPH. When on Route 91, I had the truck in tow/haul mode with the cruise set at 65 and I swear the Vantage towed better than my 21 footer. Also got passed by 3 tractor trailers with no issues. Before I signed the deal, I got all the towing specs from my Toyota dealer and found in all cases, the actual weights I'll experience loaded, will be well within the Tundra's limits. I was really impressed with the Tundra. Also, as part of the deal, we'll be getting a Reese Dual Cam with sway control hitch.
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Old 01-23-2013, 12:13 PM   #12
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Onthemove, at some point you will want to check the wt. of truck/trailer. Here in Or. go to a ODOT closed wt. station and check them for free. If you want details I can adivse how etc. Do not do it when their open they are attempting to get as many trucks thru asap. The measured wt. is allowed to be within +/- 200 lbs max. for court.
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Old 01-23-2013, 01:32 PM   #13
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If it's just you alone in the cab I can see you being right at the verge of exceeding payload. If you have two or more people in the truck with any load and that hitch wgt, I have to believe you are exceeding payload. With that said....of all the items to be concerned about.....gross wgt of trailer, gross wgt of truck and trailer, axle wgts, etc...a little over payload is not a huge deal...IMHO.

Just an FYI.....my manual says never to use cruise control while towing. I don't know if it is to avoid damaging something or just a safety recommendation.

Truck/car salesman in my experience only worry about the wgt of the trailer vs the max towing capacity of the truck. That is very misleading. I contend there is no way to tow a trailer that even approaches the Tundra's max towing wgt if 15% of it is on the hitch. Not even enough payload avail for gas and a driver!

Don't get me wrong....I have a 12 Tundra DC 5.7L....Love my truck but this site was really educational re: weights, limits, etc. Car/truck/RV salesman either don't understand the variables or choose to mislead customers into thinking they are fine when the customer is really exceeding margins of safety.
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Old 02-16-2013, 09:59 AM   #14
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I have a 2008 tundra 5.7 and pull a 2012 cougar 31sqwe. I'm in Washington where its uphill in both direction on every trip. The Tundra does fine as long as you keep it at 60 mph. My biggest complaint is 8mpg while towing.. Upgrading to an aftermarket air intake and exhaust system soon. I've never felt that the weight of the trailer has been an issue.
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Old 02-16-2013, 12:41 PM   #15
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Thank you for your reply. I still have not weighed the trailer yet since I bought it in December. I am a fair weather camper I am waiting for it to quit raining. Wife and I are getting ready to go next week to the coast and try everything out, on way home I'll weight it at a weigh scales. I am still in love with the Toyota and the Cougar, I don't want to get read of either one so I am trying not to over load the trailer with extra things..<*}}}><
PS- I did get air bags for the truck last week..
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Old 02-22-2013, 04:07 PM   #16
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First trip with Cougar

We just got back from the Oregon Coast with our new trailer. Love the trailer but not the mattress so we stopped on way home and bought an 4" firm and 2" soft together to replace the original mattress. Have to wait till next trip to see if we like it. Could someone "please help me" figure out the weight of everything? Not pulling the trailer, Toyota Front Axle = 3,640 – Rear Axle = 2,320 – GVWR = 6,280 ……..… Cougar not loaded with anything TNWR = 6,172 – Tongue Weight 630 – NCC = 1,628 The Trailer is empty no water, no batteries, no propane tanks and LPS, no food ect ect…….On way home we stopped at a weigh scales and weighed the Tundra Front Axle = 3,400 – Rear Axle = 3,750 GVWR = 7,250…………Weighed the Cougar Total weight with 30 gal. Fresh water, 10 gal. Black water, and 10 gal. Gray water. A little food and some clothes. Probably the way we will travel this summer and it Totaled 6,600 then I took the trailer off the truck and weighed the Tongue Weight = 1,150. Now my original question is all that going to be OK for my Tundra? I am concerned about the Tongue Weight. Other than that the Tundra pulled it real good except for the bad gas mileage of 8.5 and 9 MPG..... THANK YOU.....
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Old 03-01-2013, 07:36 AM   #17
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We just got back from the Oregon Coast with our new trailer. Love the trailer but not the mattress so we stopped on way home and bought an 4" firm and 2" soft together to replace the original mattress. Have to wait till next trip to see if we like it. Could someone "please help me" figure out the weight of everything? Not pulling the trailer, Toyota Front Axle = 3,640 – Rear Axle = 2,320 – GVWR = 6,280 ……..… Cougar not loaded with anything TNWR = 6,172 – Tongue Weight 630 – NCC = 1,628 The Trailer is empty no water, no batteries, no propane tanks and LPS, no food ect ect…….On way home we stopped at a weigh scales and weighed the Tundra Front Axle = 3,400 – Rear Axle = 3,750 GVWR = 7,250…………Weighed the Cougar Total weight with 30 gal. Fresh water, 10 gal. Black water, and 10 gal. Gray water. A little food and some clothes. Probably the way we will travel this summer and it Totaled 6,600 then I took the trailer off the truck and weighed the Tongue Weight = 1,150. Now my original question is all that going to be OK for my Tundra? I am concerned about the Tongue Weight. Other than that the Tundra pulled it real good except for the bad gas mileage of 8.5 and 9 MPG..... THANK YOU.....
I guess the big 2 questions are: What is your trucks GVWR? And what is the GCWR ? If your trucks GVWR is more than 7250lbs and your GCWR is more than 13,850lbs you are good to go! I was in the same boat as you last spring. I brought my setup to my local Cat Scale and had it weighed so i could set my mind at ease. My truck weighed in at 7540lbs while hooked to the trailer with my family of 4 in the truck and only the kids bikes and fishing gear in the bed of the truck. My GVWR is 7700lbs. I'm only 160lbs from my trucks max rating so i don't have much wiggle room left. I have to make sure I watch what i put in the bed of the truck. But all my other ratings are fine, my rear axle max rating is 4050 and that weighed in at 3850lbs, my max tow rating is 11,200lbs and the trailer weighed 7500lbs(loaded). So the main things to watch out for are staying under your trucks GVWR,GAWR, and GCWR and you will be fine.. Good luck, Kevin
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Old 03-01-2013, 07:44 AM   #18
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If it's just you alone in the cab I can see you being right at the verge of exceeding payload. If you have two or more people in the truck with any load and that hitch wgt, I have to believe you are exceeding payload. With that said....of all the items to be concerned about.....gross wgt of trailer, gross wgt of truck and trailer, axle wgts, etc...a little over payload is not a huge deal...IMHO.

Just an FYI.....my manual says never to use cruise control while towing. I don't know if it is to avoid damaging something or just a safety recommendation.

Truck/car salesman in my experience only worry about the wgt of the trailer vs the max towing capacity of the truck. That is very misleading. I contend there is no way to tow a trailer that even approaches the Tundra's max towing wgt if 15% of it is on the hitch. Not even enough payload avail for gas and a driver!

Don't get me wrong....I have a 12 Tundra DC 5.7L....Love my truck but this site was really educational re: weights, limits, etc. Car/truck/RV salesman either don't understand the variables or choose to mislead customers into thinking they are fine when the customer is really exceeding margins of safety.
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Don't you two have the same truck? If you think he will be over his payload max with his trailers #'s than with your trailers #'s I'm assuming you have to be well over your max rating? Your trailer is 2' longer, 700lbs heavier(dry) and your hitch weight is 140lbs heavier(dry)? I'm not sure what the specs are on the Tundra's so it's hard to figure out..
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Old 03-10-2013, 03:31 PM   #19
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Hey Neighbor!

Hi OnTheMove. We're just up here in Vancouver WA.

We just bought a '13 Cougar 29RBKWE that we plan to haul with our '10 Tundra. In fact, we haven't even picked up the trailer yet--planned for tomorrow.

But, I am a mathy sorta guy and did lots of research before making the decision. My pickup is 2 years older than yours but otherwise similar (double-cab, 4x4, tow package) and should have similar numbers:

GVWR 7,100 lbs
GAWR 4,000 (front)
GAWR 4,100 (rear)
Max tow capacity: 10,300
Max payload capacity: 1,380*
GCWR 16,000

* this is lowered from 1,600 by having a tow-package. Also, many people post that this assumes a 150lb driver and full fuel, but I could not confirm the driver part via Toyota.

Our trailer has a GVWR of 8,200, and that's really the only number I considered, as I expect to be below that, but as that's the max I figured I'd start there.

At 8,200 pounds, the trailer will need to be loaded to give between 820 (Toyota's recommendation) and 1,200 pounds of tongue weight. Using a WDH, this load will be distributed between the front and rear axles, and the trailer axles. When I do the math, I find between 12 and 20% shifts back to the trailer axles, with the rest being distributed 60/40 to rear and front TV axles. ** Note, I can't give exact numbers as I'm still learning, and my numbers wouldn't match yours because the hitch --> rear-axle distance on your trailer will effect this.

Having said all that, I will play with loading the trailer to adjust tongue weight until I find the best and safest ride, but even if that ends up being 1,200, it will put about 960 on my truck, with about 576 on the rear axle and 384 on the front, numbers that are well within spec. This would also leave about 400 pounds for myself, my wife and our (five year old) son.

I'm a software engineer, and once I can test my math with a set of scales, I may write a quick app for others to use :-)
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Old 03-10-2013, 04:31 PM   #20
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The Tundra is more than capable of handling that trailer. Fully loaded you are at 7800 lbs, and 13%(guestimate) puts you at 1000 lbs on the hitch. You can lessen that with careful loading. The truck is rated to pull 10K/1000 with a WD hitch. I was towing an Outback 277RL with about the same numbers with a 5.7L Tundra and it did great. I had to watch payload, but you have to do that with any half ton truck. I never once questioned the trucks ability to tow it or our safety, and I would not hesitate to tow with it again. I just traded the truck on a Ford F250, but it had nothing to do with the capabilities of the Tundra. I wanted more payload and the ability to move up to a 5th wheel if I chose to. The truck pulled that trailer all day at 65MPH/2000RPM/10MPG and never stuttered. Go with a Reese WD hitch and Dual Cam sway control, and with it properly setup, you'll be fine. Don't put a lot of stock in what the truck police say. There are guys who swear that you are a menace on the road in anything less than a 1 ton, diesel dually and that just ain't so. Go camping and enjoy your truck and trailer.
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