Which Travel Trailer do you recommend?

[Hitsman3]

The wife & i are looking at getting our first Travel Trailer. At the moment we have it narrowed down to a 2020 Cougar Half Ton 22RBSWE & a 2020 Grand Design Imagine XLS 22RBE. What are people's thoughts on these as far as quality, is one better that the other? Who has better customer service in your opinion?

[srvnt]

Grand Designs are very nice, Cougars are nice too, but I would never consider an rv without a big back window or a stove that does not vent outside. I guess its a personal thing. Enjoy the journey folks!

[JRTJH]

I'm sure you already have considered these factors, but just to highlight them again:

1. The dealership where you buy is probably as important as the trailer brand you buy. No matter how "good the customer service from the factory" might be, if the dealership won't get you in or if they aren't conveniently located, the factory support doesn't much matter.

2. No matter the trailer brand, chances are good that the appliances, frame, FILON, TPO roofing, holding tanks, vinyl flooring, carpet, wiring, windows, bathroom fixtures, slide mechanisms, aluminum framing, insulation, DARCO, coroplast and all the screws, staples, glue and wiring will be the same, regardless of brand.

3. While cost is a factor, saving $15,000 (on paper) on one brand over $10,000 (also on paper) with another brand, really isn't a $5,000 savings if your trailer sits at a dealership for months while you sit home, wishing you could go camping. So, back to #1, the dealership where you buy.....

[sourdough]

^^^^John pretty much hit the nail on the head. The dealer will be the deciding factor if you think the trailer is "nice/good" or not. If they don't prep the trailer properly before you get it and fix the "kinks", if they don't do a good pdi, if they don't take care of you after the sale....it doesn't matter, if you have problems and you have "that" dealer, you will hate that trailer/manufacturer.

I've looked at the Imagine trailers and they look just like a Keystone; to me. Of course, I'm sure that's because the folks that started Grand Design came from Keystone if I recall (did not recheck) so you sort of get the same thing with a different name - and higher price point due to the hype. IMO the Imagines I looked at did not look as "quality" as a Keystone at a similar price point, and, I know I've said this a thousand times, but I just don't find another manufacturer that makes floorplans as common sense and useable as Keystone.

Do your due diligence, research, ask questions and.....find the floorplan that suits you best. "Quality" of the particular unit you choose will depend on now the assembly line was "feeling" that day...no matter what brand.

[chuckster57]

We sell Grand Designs, the XLS line seems to PDI with very few issues, I would really look close at the floor plan as some are not IMO very “camper” friendly. Us techs are always saying whoever designs these things no matter what brand/floor plan should be required to “live” in it for a week.

[travelin texans]

Maybe your biggest decision is which will your tow vehicle be able handle. Half ton RVs in most cases doesn't mean your half ton truck will be enough. Most so called "half ton towable" RVs is a sales gimmick, so read up on how to calculate the numbers in several posts on this or any other RV forum. The main point being, DO NOT take your RV or truck salesman's word for anything concerning weight carrying capabilities, do your own homework.

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by sourdough

^^^^John pretty much hit the nail on the head. The dealer will be the deciding factor if you think the trailer is "nice/good" or not. If they don't prep the trailer properly before you get it and fix the "kinks", if they don't do a good pdi, if they don't take care of you after the sale....it doesn't matter, if you have problems and you have "that" dealer, you will hate that trailer/manufacturer.

I've looked at the Imagine trailers and they look just like a Keystone; to me. Of course, I'm sure that's because the folks that started Grand Design came from Keystone if I recall (did not recheck) so you sort of get the same thing with a different name - and higher price point due to the hype. IMO the Imagines I looked at did not look as "quality" as a Keystone at a similar price point, and, I know I've said this a thousand times, but I just don't find another manufacturer that makes floorplans as common sense and useable as Keystone.

Do your due diligence, research, ask questions and.....find the floorplan that suits you best. "Quality" of the particular unit you choose will depend on now the assembly line was "feeling" that day...no matter what brand.

As I recall the folks who owned Keystone sold out and had a non-compete agreement in place and as soon as that agreement lapsed, they struck out and started Grand Design.

My two cents.... If this is your first trailer, keep in mind you will be discovering things you like and don't like. For instance, I get up early and my wife likes to sleep in. It would be hard to turn on the TV and drip a cup of coffee with only the curtain separating the bedroom. Next... if you sit on one of those dinette cushions for awhile you will wonder why you didn't buy a camper with a sofa or recliners, etc. I have pulled the dinette out of every camper we have owned and replaced it with a table and chairs and have also pulled out the pull out and make into a bed couch and replaced it with a Lazyboy reclining love seat. Last, if you live where it gets warm, a 50A service and two A/Cs are a priority.

The kitchen in the Cougar looks pretty good and I like no carpet in the living area. Camping and carpet don't make sense to me.

I guess my point is for your first trailer, decide what features you think you need and/or want and find a nice used trailer and after a few camping trips you will probably find that your initial druthers weren't as you might have wished for. You won't be stuck with a huge payment and keep in mind that if you trade in or sell that new trailer, you are going to be way upside down so if you do go new, get it right the first time.

[Retired Copper]

All great advise Hitsman3 from folks that have been at it awhile. This being your first rv, floor plan and how it works for the family So many first timers get the rv and after a short while they realize the floor plan just doesn`t fit the way you use it the most. The others here have touched on all the other stuff like dealership, service department and towing length, size and weight. If all are pretty much equal it gets down to the little things most never even look at. Axles and tire load rating. Size of tanks. Hinges, latches, and fixtures. If that doesn`t always work out just go with the one the DW prefers, if she ain`t happy none is happy.

[Hitsman3]

The Grand Design dealer was saying the keystone’s are know for delam on the back panel? Is this true? He had us walk around to a couple used ones he had on the lot and push on them and you could feel movement on all of them. I though I read somewhere though that the rear panel was not glued on just hung in place but I could be wrong!

[chuckster57]

There are plenty of different brands that the rear wall is "hung in place". My 2012 Copper Canyon is one and it hasn't had any issues. It is held in place at the top, bottom, sides and the window. Don't let that be the only reason NOT to pick a Keystone product. Not trying to spite the Grand Designs units as we are a dealer and I work on them, I just think its funny how the dealer of a particular brand will downplay/bash the brand he doesn't sell.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Hitsman3

The Grand Design dealer was saying the keystone’s are know for delam on the back panel? Is this true? He had us walk around to a couple used ones he had on the lot and push on them and you could feel movement on all of them. I though I read somewhere though that the rear panel was not glued on just hung in place but I could be wrong!

Your salesman is "blowing smoke" !!!!

Keystone RV's are built (intentionally) with a floating rear wall. To suggest that they are "known for delam on the back panel" and having you push on the wall to "show you that it gives and is faulty" is, in my opinion, "playing you for a dumb-a**".... Don't fall for it and find another person that won't lie to you.

Here are photos of the way the rear wall on Keystone RV's is constructed. As you can see, the wall "hangs on the rear frame and floats" That's NOT delamination....

[Hitsman3]

We have looked @ Outdoors RV TT & when we told the dealer we were going to look at a Keystone Cougar, he laughed & said we would be back, they don’t compare to “our trailers!” Grand Design dealer says the Keystone don’t compare to our quality & do you know they delam on the back panel? When we told the keystone dealer what other trailers we were looking at, he said “Good, they make good trailers but so do we. I’m glad you went and looked at theirs as well, I won’t say anything bad about them. The Keystone dealer we are looking at, their salesman don’t work on commission.

[Snoking]

Originally Posted by Hitsman3

The wife & i are looking at getting our first Travel Trailer. At the moment we have it narrowed down to a 2020 Cougar Half Ton 22RBSWE & a 2020 Grand Design Imagine XLS 22RBE. What are people's thoughts on these as far as quality, is one better that the other? Who has better customer service in your opinion?

You might want to look at the Laredo 225MK also. I little heavier, but most likely built better. 4400 lb axles, wet bolts and 15" tires, plus these two packages make it nice:

BLACK LABEL PACKAGE
Electric stabilizer jacks front & rear
Road Armor™ suspension system
SolidStep® by Lippert Components, main entry
Solid-surface countertops

LIFE SIZE PACKAGE
Large shower 34'' - 50'' TT
50 AMP service, wired and braced for 2nd air conditioner
8 cu. ft. Refrigerator
Road ArmorTM suspension system

BTW I hate dinette's.

[Hitsman3]

Chuckster57, please educate me, is there a reason it’s “hung?” Is this a better design? Are the Grand Designs hung or laminated on? Is one way better than the other or just a Design preference?

[wiredgeorge]

I think a more basic issue is trying to learn about design from a salesman. If you go into a Ford dealership and ask why you shouldn't buy a Chevy, do you think you will get an honest and balanced answer from the salesman? Spend some time diving through RV parks and you will see delamination on quite a few trailers of many brands. Glue lets loose from fiberglass. The most common cause of the delamination is an owner failing to periodically re-seal seams with lap sealant. Lack of maintenance is not a brand specific problem.

[sourdough]

[QUOTE=Hitsman3;360167]We have looked @ Outdoors RV TT & when we told the dealer we were going to look at a Keystone Cougar, he laughed & said we would be back, they don’t compare to “our trailers!” Grand Design dealer says the Keystone don’t compare to our quality & do you know they delam on the back panel? When we told the keystone dealer what other trailers we were looking at, he said “Good, they make good trailers but so do we. I’m glad you went and looked at theirs as well, I won’t say anything bad about them. The Keystone dealer we are looking at, their salesman don’t work on commission.[/QUOTE

Hitsman3; I've bought lots and lots of things in my life and dealt with countless "salesmen". Some are honest, straightforward and let their product sell itself. Some believe the best path to a sale is to disparage every other brand out there to make whatever they're selling sound better and hope you don't know the difference - snake oil salesmen is what I call them. That's what you've found at the GD dealership. The guy at the Keystone dealer was straight up and honest - I would buy from him if he was selling a Yugo before I bought from the other guy. Here's the deal though; the Keystone guy is trusting you to do your homework and KNOW what you want after comparing. The GD guy is trying to put down anything other than what he sells by spinning tales - a very bad sign in my book.

[chuckster57]

Originally Posted by Hitsman3

Chuckster57, please educate me, is there a reason it’s “hung?” Is this a better design? Are the Grand Designs hung or laminated on? Is one way better than the other or just a Design preference?

Most likely just the way it’s done by some manufacturers. I believe the XLS is laminated, I’ll take a closer look in the morning as I’ve been working on motorhomes lately.

[Hitsman3]

Thank you guys for all the responses, I’ve done plenty of research on the old internet on both TT’s. We definitely like the feel/vibe of how we were treated at the Keystone dealer. Grand Design we weren’t treated bad, just don’t like the fact that they think they know everything about another trailer they don’t sell unless they get one on trade in. We like the Imagine XLS 22 but have yet to set foot in one as there is not one to be found in the state of Washington. Have looked at the Cougar a couple times & are waiting to look at the XLS 22 and make are decision. The Keystone dealer already has a head start on things as he was honest with us. Keep the comments coming, pros and cons.

[chuckster57]

Which XLS? 22MLE or 22RBE?

[Hitsman3]

The Grand Design is the XLS 22RBE