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Old 07-31-2019, 04:01 AM   #21
MarkEHansen
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I don't know if the current tests have really shown that the brakes are adjusted correctly. Enough braking to prevent a Human from turning the wheel is certainly less than the amount required to slow down a moving RV.

When the trailer was first assembled, the brakes may have been adjusted well, but the brake shoes need to "burn-in" (whatever they call that) and when that happens, they need to be adjusted again. I would use the Lippert manual and go through the brake adjustment protocol and see if that makes any difference.

Good luck.
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Old 07-31-2019, 06:09 AM   #22
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There will be no hum with these DC operated brake magnets. AC operated (60 hz) solenoids, magnets and transformers will have that hum we are familiar with!
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Old 07-31-2019, 06:55 AM   #23
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Just did a big TH, 3 years and no axle services. Came in no brakes, amp gauge showed a slight decrease. Pulled drums and 3 of 4 looked like grandmas chocolate frosting.

2 years ago we had a run of seal failures on LCI axles straight from the factory. I would pull the PASSENGER side wheels as that the side we saw the most failures on.
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Old 07-31-2019, 07:20 AM   #24
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I can do electrics, electronics, and gadgets, but I'm no auto mechanic. Looks like my RV gets yet another vacation at the dealership. It's quite possible it has spent more time there since it was purchased than it has with us. The grandson is going to be bummed.
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Old 07-31-2019, 09:37 AM   #25
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FWIIW:

When I went from a 5600 lb TT to a 8500 lb FW I initially thought the FW had no effective braking.

I recalled forum members stating that on the F series, not only can you set the gain on the integrated brake controller, but also how aggressive the braking is initiated. I pulled out the F250 owner's manual to find how to make the adjustment and set it for the most aggressive. That combined with the "seating" of the brake pads /drums with use (FW was on the dealers lot for a year) has resulted in braking that is very effective at a gain of 8.

I hope this helps.
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Old 07-31-2019, 09:41 AM   #26
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I recalled forum members stating that on the F series, not only can you set the gain on the integrated brake controller, but also how aggressive the braking is initiated. I pulled out the F250 owner's manual to find how to make the adjustment and set it for the most aggressive.
I think you're referring to the low-medium-high setting, separate from the 1-10 keypad setting. As I mentioned previously, I tried that up to high with no apparent improvement.
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Old 07-31-2019, 11:46 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bostongone View Post
There will be no hum with these DC operated brake magnets. AC operated (60 hz) solenoids, magnets and transformers will have that hum we are familiar with!

When my brakes are activated I hear them "click" and every wheel "hums" until the brakes are released or the breakaway switch is pushed back in. Not a 60hz hum, but a hum none the less - definitely audible.
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Old 07-31-2019, 12:53 PM   #28
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As I understand it, a modern brake controller controls the intensity of the trailer brakes by pulse width modulation, otherwise there would just be brakes full on and brakes full off. That's one place a hum would come from. It wouldn't explain a hum from the emergency switch though.
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Old 08-01-2019, 05:58 AM   #29
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My bad on the hum! I agree that with the PWM brake controllers there would be some sort of hum due to the modulation but I take a half correct as my response was directly to the instance of pulling the emergency brake pin (DC).
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Old 08-01-2019, 07:21 AM   #30
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What would be the difference? They are electric brakes using the same 12vdc electrical current. Anyway, the way I knew my breakaway switch was pulled when they killed my battery (due to that) at the dealership was the click and hum from the brakes as soon as I connected a new battery. Pushed the pin back in....no hum.
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Old 08-01-2019, 02:05 PM   #31
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My go-to mechanic did a night's worth of research for me. He is now firmly convinced the problem is in the F-250 (which is, after all, the new factor in the equation, the trailer having worked fine previously), and points to this set of threads as evidence:

https://www.f150forum.com/f118/trail...roblems-316625
https://www.f150forum.com/f118/trail...solved-379698/

I'm going to go over this very carefully with my dealer. It was pointed out that add-on brake controllers fix this problem every time. As one poster summarized, "I can hook a $50 brake controller up and they work fine, but the one that comes stock in a $50k truck, yeah that one's not going to work. Good job Ford!"
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Old 08-02-2019, 09:43 AM   #32
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What would be the difference? They are electric brakes using the same 12vdc electrical current.
The current from a TV brake controller is turned on and off many times per second in order to control the braking intensity. That gives the current much the same characteristics that would induce an AC hum.
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Old 08-03-2019, 08:21 AM   #33
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Quote:
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The current from a TV brake controller is turned on and off many times per second in order to control the braking intensity. That gives the current much the same characteristics that would induce an AC hum.
The DC current in this scenario would be square waves not sine waves like AC. Apples and oranges. The brake hum is most likely mechanical and comes from the magnets engaging in status and building potential energy and releasing it as sound waves and heat. The energy has to go somewhere.
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Old 08-09-2019, 12:52 PM   #34
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I just got this response from Ford customer satisfaction. Kind of outrageous. They admit (but don't address) the problem with their controller -- then they advise me that if I choose to have the stock controller removed (something I never suggested) that I get it done in the approved Ford manner.

Quote:
Concern: Trailer Braking

Our Ford Technical Subject Matter Expert spoke with the Service Advisor at your dealership who completed various tests of your vehicle with a trailer and found that your trailer brakes were not responding to the NEW truck's braking system signal.

Also the trailer's bias brake bar does not respond to manual leverage when pulled.

If the customer wishes to place an aftermarket controller on the vehicle it is recommended that the customer refer to the owners manual pages 290 to 293 on towing to ensure that the braking system on the trailer is compatible with the NEW vehicle systems.

It is recommended the customer have the trailer serviced to work with the truck's NEW braking system.

It is recommended that if the customer wishes to disable the trailer braking feature that the customer should have this service done at a Ford Dealership. If done by a unauthorized vendor may void warranty in related areas.

I appreciate the opportunity to help you in this matter. And, always, thank you for being part of the Ford Family.
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Old 08-09-2019, 01:28 PM   #35
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Well, first of all I'm pretty sure having any work done on a vehicle by a mechanic cannot void the warranty. There's a law for this (although I can't remember what it's called right now) which is to prevent the manufacturer from requiring you to use their dealers for service.

I agree, though, it sounds like they are kicking the problem into Keystone's court. I would send a letter to Keystone and let them know that Ford is basically saying they don't support towing their trailers. This should be a big deal to them.

However ... I think what's really happened here is you got a response from some desk jockey that doesn't really know what they are talking about. If it were me, I would escalate this - up to their director of customer service, if necessary, in writing.

Good luck.
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Old 08-09-2019, 01:34 PM   #36
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This *was* their Customer Relationship Center. When the DW asked, "How can I get this escalated to someone beyond you," the reply was, "You can't, I'm the end of the line here."

The name of the person at the end of the line is Cassandra Gross.
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Old 08-09-2019, 01:43 PM   #37
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That's just not true. My previous comment still applies. Try writing a letter to the director of customer support (or whatever they call it) - and let him know the response you got...

Poor customer service. Too bad.
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Old 08-09-2019, 05:25 PM   #38
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Quote:
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This *was* their Customer Relationship Center. When the DW asked, "How can I get this escalated to someone beyond you," the reply was, "You can't, I'm the end of the line here."

The name of the person at the end of the line is Cassandra Gross.
Ms Gross is not correct. ALL vehicle manufacturers MUST abide by the arbitration system. She is NOT the end of the line and you do have the right (as the vehicle owner) to escalate this issue beyond her "desk".....

Take a look at your Ford Warranty booklet regarding arbitration. In my 2015 warranty guide, it's section 10.

Before doing that, I'd contact the Ford Area Service Representative for your region and discuss the issue with that person. Also, if you're on one of the Ford forum's, most do have a "Ford service rep" that monitors the site and that can intervene on your behalf.
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Old 08-09-2019, 05:31 PM   #39
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That's good advice, I'll leave that to the family negotiator (DW).

I went out and measured resistance on the brake circuit at the connector plug. I got 1.0Ω, which I believe is in the happy ballpark (four 4Ω magnets in parallel). I'm toying with the idea of having a local mechanic verify my brake magnets regardless, then if the controller is still MIA, I'm going to buy an add-on controller (probably a Curt 51180 so I don't have to screw with wiring) so I don't have to cancel my next planned trip, while I pursue this with Ford.

It has not been a good two weeks here. This is only one of about six grief issues I'm juggling.
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Old 08-15-2019, 08:45 PM   #40
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Update: I discovered, to my advantage, that my Ford dealer also runs a tire and body shop a short distance away that also does trailer service.

I took my Cougar in to have the bearings repacked and the brakes checked. They reported some grease on the shoes from a blown seal, which they cleaned, and said the brakes were 100% operational.

I asked the tech to configure my brake controller settings before I left. Funny thing -- he couldn't make it work.

Now I have eliminated all the finger-pointing steps. The same corporate group has now certified both my truck and my trailer, but the brakes still clearly don't work. I have an appointment set up with the truck service manager, and can now lay the entire thing in his lap.
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