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08-19-2017, 11:32 AM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Romeo
Posts: 142
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slide-out topper on a slide with an electric awning
HI all
I have a 2018 Cougar 359MBI
Dealer installed 3 slide toppers on 3 slides (on drivers side).
the 4th slide (door side) has an electric awning on it.
Therefore per dealer, they could not install topper.
To me there seems room enough.
Is there something I am missing?
Has anyone done this?
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08-19-2017, 11:49 AM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Romeo
Posts: 142
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existing slide toppers
slide out with awning I would like to add topper
and one with it open
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08-19-2017, 12:28 PM
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#3
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Site Team
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Modesto
Posts: 20,349
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Biggest issue is where to mount the brackets. We did a couple and quit doing them.
__________________
2012 Copper Canyon 273FWRET being towed by a 1994 Ford F350 CC,LB,Dually diesel.
Airlift 5000 bags, Prodigy brake control, 5 gauges on the pillar.Used to tow a '97 Jayco 323RKS.
Now an RVIA registered tech. Retired from Law enforcement in 2008 after 25+ yrs.
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08-19-2017, 02:00 PM
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#4
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,997
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Mic,
If you'll look carefully at where the mount brackets are located on the slide covers that are installed you'll see that they fit "right up against" the flange molding on the slide. Looking at the awning that is installed on the slide without a slide cover, the awning is mounted over the area where the slide cover bracket would have to be mounted. You can't install both in the same space and to try to move the awning would leave a number of "holes in the skin" lower on the awning mounts. So, it looks like your dealer is telling you the truth, even if it's not what you want to hear.
__________________
John
2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
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08-19-2017, 03:49 PM
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#5
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Site Team
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Modesto
Posts: 20,349
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slide-out topper on a slide with an electric awning
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH
Mic,
If you'll look carefully at where the mount brackets are located on the slide covers that are installed you'll see that they fit "right up against" the flange molding on the slide. Looking at the awning that is installed on the slide without a slide cover, the awning is mounted over the area where the slide cover bracket would have to be mounted. You can't install both in the same space and to try to move the awning would leave a number of "holes in the skin" lower on the awning mounts. So, it looks like your dealer is telling you the truth, even if it's not what you want to hear.
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Bingo. And Lots of times the 12V wiring runs up the framework and into the ceiling. One screw from the mount can short everything out...Ask me how I know. Your dealer probably got real lucky.
__________________
2012 Copper Canyon 273FWRET being towed by a 1994 Ford F350 CC,LB,Dually diesel.
Airlift 5000 bags, Prodigy brake control, 5 gauges on the pillar.Used to tow a '97 Jayco 323RKS.
Now an RVIA registered tech. Retired from Law enforcement in 2008 after 25+ yrs.
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08-20-2017, 06:04 AM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Romeo
Posts: 142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH
Mic,
If you'll look carefully at where the mount brackets are located on the slide covers that are installed you'll see that they fit "right up against" the flange molding on the slide. Looking at the awning that is installed on the slide without a slide cover, the awning is mounted over the area where the slide cover bracket would have to be mounted. You can't install both in the same space and to try to move the awning would leave a number of "holes in the skin" lower on the awning mounts. So, it looks like your dealer is telling you the truth, even if it's not what you want to hear.
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Thanks for the replies.
I did not mean to come off think the dealer was not telling me the truth.
Just really like the toppers to shed debris ans especially water when closing if raining.
Just really wanted one and it 'appeared to be just enough room'..
seeing the topper mounted to the outboard flange and the awning just inside of that.
So I thought I would ask.
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08-20-2017, 06:36 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Kamiah
Posts: 276
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I must be missing something here? But after looking at the pictures, it looks to me like they will both fit. Topper bracket is mounted above (on slide trim) where the awning fabric is attached (below slide trim) to the slide. Looks like it would work "if" the slide trim is strong enough to take the stress from rolling up the topper.
__________________
Ron&Sue
2017 Montana 3720RL Legacy
14' Ram 3500 DRW
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08-20-2017, 07:00 AM
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#8
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Site Team
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Modesto
Posts: 20,349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatcatzzz
I must be missing something here? But after looking at the pictures, it looks to me like they will both fit. Topper bracket is mounted above (on slide trim) where the awning fabric is attached (below slide trim) to the slide. Looks like it would work "if" the slide trim is strong enough to take the stress from rolling up the topper.
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AND one of the screws used to secure the bracket doesn't hit any wiring
BTDT, and it ain't fun trying to fish the wires to fix the short. That's the main reason we don't do them anymore. Frame of slide is square tube aluminum, and makes for a great conduit to run wiring, not so good to repair breaks/shorts. Corners are most common to get the power from the main body to the slide.
__________________
2012 Copper Canyon 273FWRET being towed by a 1994 Ford F350 CC,LB,Dually diesel.
Airlift 5000 bags, Prodigy brake control, 5 gauges on the pillar.Used to tow a '97 Jayco 323RKS.
Now an RVIA registered tech. Retired from Law enforcement in 2008 after 25+ yrs.
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08-20-2017, 07:14 AM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Kamiah
Posts: 276
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Not trying to beat a dead horse here, but I did not know they ran wires in the slide trim. There are no wires in the trim on my slides, even though my topper brackets are installed below the trim not on the trim.
__________________
Ron&Sue
2017 Montana 3720RL Legacy
14' Ram 3500 DRW
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08-20-2017, 07:38 AM
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#10
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Site Team
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Modesto
Posts: 20,349
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slide-out topper on a slide with an electric awning
Not the trim, in the frame. The bottom of the flange is just about even with the framing. Put the topper bracket at the bottom of the flange, over enough to clear the slide, and one of the six screws might catch the wiring coming up the corner frame.
__________________
2012 Copper Canyon 273FWRET being towed by a 1994 Ford F350 CC,LB,Dually diesel.
Airlift 5000 bags, Prodigy brake control, 5 gauges on the pillar.Used to tow a '97 Jayco 323RKS.
Now an RVIA registered tech. Retired from Law enforcement in 2008 after 25+ yrs.
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08-20-2017, 07:59 AM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Kamiah
Posts: 276
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Agreed, bracket should be in corner of the slide inside the trim or flange. OP's pic's show brackets mounted "on" the trim. I have looked a Dometic and carefree install instruction and none show bracket mounted on the side flange or trim, they show in the corner where there maybe wires like you said. So are the bracket installed on flange wrong or is this an accepted install method?
__________________
Ron&Sue
2017 Montana 3720RL Legacy
14' Ram 3500 DRW
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08-20-2017, 08:28 AM
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#12
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,997
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatcatzzz
Not trying to beat a dead horse here, but I did not know they ran wires in the slide trim. There are no wires in the trim on my slides, even though my topper brackets are installed below the trim not on the trim.
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Chuckster identified the potential risk. I'll try to explain it a bit further. The slide frame is made up of welded 1" square aluminum tubing. On the outer perimeter some manufacturers use 1x2" tubing others use 1x1" and weld two together. Then, since 12 volt (and sometimes 120 volt wiring is needed "to plugs and lights located in the slide walls/ceiling" that wiring can't be run "nilly-willy" through the walls so manufacturers use the corner square aluminum tubing as a conduit to run the wires. They use the "outer tube" for the wires since this tube is usually not considered as a bracket support.
Typically, slide cover brackets are mounted "adjacent to" (not on) the slide flange molding. This puts the screws that attach the bracket on the "inner tube" of the slide frame where there is no chance of drilling through the wiring. When mounting a slide cover bracket "ON" the slide flange molding as they did with the OP's brackets, there is a significant risk of drilling through the wires inside that "outside 1x1" tube.
That is what chuckster is saying is a "potential risk". Damaging that wire will lead to problems "down the line" and attempting a repair means weakening the tube, replacing the slide flange molding and then trying to "make a strong enough fixture" on which to attempt a second shot at installing the bracket. It's not something for the "faint of heart" and it's not what I'd want on my RV. The problems in a couple of years are going to be "at the owner's expense" and they will be significant if the slide frame is damaged and covered up.....
For most, it's just not an option to "stick it up there anyway"......
ADDED: As for Dometic Awning installation instructions, if you look at figures 5, 6, 7, and 8, there are instructions to mount the bracket "on" the flange. It is an "accepted practice" (I asked chuckster about this yesterday when I saw the OP's pictures) because of the risks involved. It is an "alternative" but not one that is commonly used. You can download the Dometic instructions here: http://liferebooted.net/life-reboote...e%20Topper.pdf
__________________
John
2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
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08-20-2017, 09:06 AM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Kamiah
Posts: 276
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Thanks for the explanation. Make sense. Guess I'm just being thick headed this morning. Chuckster57 tried to explain it, but I just wasn't getting it.
__________________
Ron&Sue
2017 Montana 3720RL Legacy
14' Ram 3500 DRW
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08-20-2017, 09:14 AM
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#14
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,997
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And that's exactly why he and I had a PM conversation about the installation yesterday. I was "sort of in the same frame of mind" as you before his explanation. He's on a "little thumb response phone" I'm on a laptop, so much easier for me to type a long response to explain more fully. In the end, the important part is that the OP understand why his dealer is reluctant to install a slide cover on that slide. It's "risky business" to keep drilling holes in that area and there are 12 (6 on each bracket) and any one of them could spell disaster to the wiring.
__________________
John
2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
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08-20-2017, 10:38 AM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Romeo
Posts: 142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckster57
Not the trim, in the frame. The bottom of the flange is just about even with the framing. Put the topper bracket at the bottom of the flange, over enough to clear the slide, and one of the six screws might catch the wiring coming up the corner frame.
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Yes it is into the bottom of 'trim' ... but also into slide 'frame'
new pics attached
But I get the reasoning now....I thought of doing it myself...maybe not?
if it helps current toppers are part number Dometic 98001FJ.###U
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08-20-2017, 11:08 AM
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Romeo
Posts: 142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH
Chuckster identified the potential risk. I'll try to explain it a bit further. The slide frame is made up of welded 1" square aluminum tubing. On the outer perimeter some manufacturers use 1x2" tubing others use 1x1" and weld two together. Then, since 12 volt (and sometimes 120 volt wiring is needed "to plugs and lights located in the slide walls/ceiling" that wiring can't be run "nilly-willy" through the walls so manufacturers use the corner square aluminum tubing as a conduit to run the wires. They use the "outer tube" for the wires since this tube is usually not considered as a bracket support.
Typically, slide cover brackets are mounted "adjacent to" (not on) the slide flange molding. This puts the screws that attach the bracket on the "inner tube" of the slide frame where there is no chance of drilling through the wiring. When mounting a slide cover bracket "ON" the slide flange molding as they did with the OP's brackets, there is a significant risk of drilling through the wires inside that "outside 1x1" tube.
That is what chuckster is saying is a "potential risk". Damaging that wire will lead to problems "down the line" and attempting a repair means weakening the tube, replacing the slide flange molding and then trying to "make a strong enough fixture" on which to attempt a second shot at installing the bracket. It's not something for the "faint of heart" and it's not what I'd want on my RV. The problems in a couple of years are going to be "at the owner's expense" and they will be significant if the slide frame is damaged and covered up.....
For most, it's just not an option to "stick it up there anyway"......
ADDED: As for Dometic Awning installation instructions, if you look at figures 5, 6, 7, and 8, there are instructions to mount the bracket "on" the flange. It is an "accepted practice" (I asked chuckster about this yesterday when I saw the OP's pictures) because of the risks involved. It is an "alternative" but not one that is commonly used. You can download the Dometic instructions here: http://liferebooted.net/life-reboote...e%20Topper.pdf
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I am starting to understand the dealer reluctance.
I do not want issue down the road.
FWIW my other slides #2 & #3 have wires and/or LP going into them just like slide #4 has only wires.
pics to clarify
Thanks for all the comments.
You might actually 'save me money'...by not spending it.
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08-20-2017, 11:26 AM
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#17
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Site Team
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Modesto
Posts: 20,349
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On slides without awnings, the topper brackets are screwed into the sidewall not into the framework. If there is a " double frame" then your not going to hit the wiring channel. We also use SikaFlex on the backside of the bracket because it has very good adhesion properties.
__________________
2012 Copper Canyon 273FWRET being towed by a 1994 Ford F350 CC,LB,Dually diesel.
Airlift 5000 bags, Prodigy brake control, 5 gauges on the pillar.Used to tow a '97 Jayco 323RKS.
Now an RVIA registered tech. Retired from Law enforcement in 2008 after 25+ yrs.
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08-23-2017, 04:15 PM
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Romeo
Posts: 142
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Any one have a site to get the manual for the toppers?
Part number 98001FJ.156U
I'd like to read the manual to see the clearance measurements.
__________________
2018 Cougar 359MBI
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08-23-2017, 05:44 PM
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#19
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,997
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Mic,
I believe the Dometic installation manual is in the last line of my post #12. If that's not it, just do a "google search" for that part number followed by "installation manual". It should get you a PDF of the manual. Good Luck.
__________________
John
2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
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08-24-2017, 06:47 AM
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#20
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Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Fort Worth
Posts: 27
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We have the same situation and are having toppers installed but the dealer didn't say he couldn't do it on the slide with the awning. We will see
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