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Old 10-21-2019, 02:04 AM   #1
DrHolliday
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Odd brake controller issue, truck or trailer?

Not sure what section to put this in, but I was towing when it happened.


I have a 2015 Chevy Duramax with integrated brake controller, and a Fuzion 371 toyhauler.


On our first outing I slide my hitch to the maneuver position to get out of my driveway. When I did it my break away cable got pinched and pulled out the break away pin. I stopped and fixed it, had to disconnect the truck and shut it off for a minute to reset the brake controller. All was good until the drive home. I had my truck tell me *ding ding ding* check trailer wiring followed by it immediately saying trailer connected. I though it was odd, but it only did it once.


My second trip out I towed 550 miles from Ohio to Vermont. The truck started to give me the check trailer wiring message on any incline but would immediately reconnect again. As I got closer to Vermont it would ding and not reconnect quickly. When it would do it I still had lights, but no trailer brakes.



When I go to my destination I had to very sharp turns and it was dark. I had the same issue where the breakaway pin was pulled twice locking up the trailer brakes. I fixed it and reset it twice and finally parked the trailer. (long day 13 hours towing with 2 young kids).


I checked all wiring on the truck and trailer and visually didn't see anything wrong.


Hooked up for the trip home same 550 mile drive. Didn't have one issue. Everything worked flawlessly.



I'm curious what the issue could be and would like to check it out. I'm leaning towards the issue was in the breakaway switch. When it was tripped the first time it wasn't reset fully and would intermittently disconnect. Then having it get pulled and put back in 2 more times corrected it without me knowing.


What should I look into and test to prevent it from happening in the future?


Thank you
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Old 10-21-2019, 04:20 AM   #2
Wxman
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I had a similar issue with my TT and '17 Silverado. In my case it was the plug connection between truck and trailer. The TT plug got wet once and had some electrolysis take place, copper sulfate formed around the plug as the battery was connected camping. I cleaned it and thought I was good to go, but started having intermittent "Check Trailer Wiring" messages usually immediately followed by "Trailer Connected" messages. During these times the brakes would be inop even though all lights etc., still worked. Turned out my cleaning had left a lose connection on the brake pin of the plugs which started arcing and damaged both the TT and truck sides of the connection. New plugs fixed me up.

During my troubleshooting I learned the factory brake controller 'looks' at the trailer wiring and supposedly looks for about 14ohms resistance in the brake circuit. One check is to check the resistance on the trailer plug between ground and brakes. If it is way off of the 14ohms then you know to look at trailer (grounds, shorted wires, failing magnets...).
If that looks OK I would clean the plugs with some contact cleaner and check for any sign of damage and do the same with breakaway switch (or probably replace the breakaway switch just for good measure as they aren't too expensive).
Frustrating because when it works it works and the intermittent nature makes troubleshooting difficult.
Good luck
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Old 10-21-2019, 04:33 AM   #3
DrHolliday
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Thanks Wxman,


I'll check resistance on the brakes tonight. The trailer is only 3 years old and the plug looks new (clean) But I'll dig into it to verify. The wiring on the truck is all new. I bought the kit and plugged it all in with dielectric grease. When I had the issues I moved and wiggled all connections trying to get it to reproduce the problem while parked and couldn't. It can get frustrating trying to troubleshoot.



What is more baffling to me is how on the drive home it was perfect with no issues.
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Old 10-21-2019, 04:54 AM   #4
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I agree, and even though your issue may be completely different reason mine did the same thing. Perfect for half of trip, then hit a rest stop or something and it would ding at me 10 times in 15 mins and then work for another couple hundred miles without issue. I could stop and plug/unplug and wiggle everything and not find a problem, plug it in drive 50 yds and get the ding and message.
I guess I don't 'really' know if it is fixed but I did see evidence of arcing on that connection and after replacing both plugs had zero issues on the last 500 mile round trip.
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Old 10-21-2019, 07:34 AM   #5
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Here's one "what if" condition that may have contributed to the trailer disconnect alerts:

What if, when you were backing that first time and pulled the breakaway cable, while you were reconnecting everything, you "slightly dislodged the 7 way connector" ?? That would (could) explain the intermittent alerts on the tow home. Then, on subsequent tows, the 7 way connector has been properly seated in the truck receptacle, so there's been no intermittent alerts ....

Your issue may not even include the breakaway switch or cable, they are functioning as designed, and the only contribution of the breakaway system is that dislodging of the 7 way connector resulted from accidental bumping of the connector while reinstalling the plastic pin in the breakaway switch, and the next time it happened, the 7 way connector simply wasn't fully seated.....

Just a "theory about why it only happened those times and never has happened again".....
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Old 10-21-2019, 07:53 AM   #6
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Had the "trailer disconnect" and "connected" on our '09 King Ranch when we first towed with it (different trailer). Some dielectric grease solved that issue.

As a side note that's related to umbilical cords.... most trucks for the last 2 decades have relays that power the connections so they are energized only while the key is in the "on" or "run" position. Due to this, I've been in the habit of shutting down the truck before plugging in the 7 way or disconnecting it. This prevents the plug contacts, especially the "battery" terminal from arching when connecting or disconnecting. That process and the use of the dielectric grease and no plug issues for the last 20+ years.
YMMV
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Old 10-21-2019, 12:36 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrHolliday View Post
Thanks Wxman,


I'll check resistance on the brakes tonight. The trailer is only 3 years old and the plug looks new (clean) But I'll dig into it to verify. The wiring on the truck is all new. I bought the kit and plugged it all in with dielectric grease. When I had the issues I moved and wiggled all connections trying to get it to reproduce the problem while parked and couldn't. It can get frustrating trying to troubleshoot.



What is more baffling to me is how on the drive home it was perfect with no issues.
A bit about dielectric grease.
Dielectric grease does not dissolve as most liquids do, so it is good for marine and outdoor applications. ... The grease does not conduct electricity, so it shouldn't be applied directly to the mating surfaces (pins and sockets) of an electrical connection
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Old 10-21-2019, 04:39 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by 66joej View Post
it shouldn't be applied directly to the mating surfaces (pins and sockets) of an electrical connection
Joe, I recently bought some dialectic grease for the purpose of coating the pins and sockets on my umbilical. Not having any problems with the connection, just trying to guard against the ambient salt water environment on the coast of Virginia. Haven’t used the grease yet, so glad to read your post. So what is the grease supposed to be used for?
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Old 10-22-2019, 04:45 AM   #9
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Joe, I recently bought some dialectic grease for the purpose of coating the pins and sockets on my umbilical. Not having any problems with the connection, just trying to guard against the ambient salt water environment on the coast of Virginia. Haven’t used the grease yet, so glad to read your post. So what is the grease supposed to be used for?
Steve found this on the internet. Hopefully explains the use better than I can.

Dielectric grease, or tune-up grease, is a silicone-based grease that repels moisture and protects electrical connections against corrosion. It is also used to keep dirt, water, and other elements out of electrical connections. It has many uses, including automotive tune-ups, home electrical work, and recreational vehicle wiring. Dielectric grease does not dissolve in most liquids, so it is good for marine and outdoor applications. You can use this grease to lubricate the rubber parts of electrical connectors, spark plug wires, and to protect electrical connections on your boat or recreational vehicle from corrosion. Since dielectric grease is a silicone grease, it should not be used on silicone-based rubbers or plastics, as it will break them down over time. The grease does not conduct electricity, so it shouldn’t be applied directly to the mating surfaces (pins and sockets) of an electrical connection.

How to Use Dielectric Grease
To use dielectric grease during an automotive tune-up on a gasoline or diesel engine, apply a bit of the grease to the end of the rubber boot on a spark plug wire and spread it around so it is just covering the inside of the lip. This will make it easier to slide the boot over the ceramic insulator on the spark plug and ensure that there is a water-tight seal around the plug that will protect the connection from water and dirt.

You can also apply dielectric grease to the gaskets on multi-pin connectors that are typical in the electrical systems of boats and recreational vehicles. Simply take a small dab of the grease and smear it around the gasket on both sides (if possible) before inserting the gasket around the connection.

Dielectric grease can also be applied to the metal parts of virtually any electrical connection that will be exposed to the elements to serve as a sealant that protects the connection from contamination and corrosion. This should be done very carefully, as the grease will cut off the flow of electricity through the connection if some of it is left between the mating surfaces. As always, we recommend working with your local auto mechanic when doing any maintenance on your vehicle.

Posted in: Automotive
Tagged: Automotive, Automotive Maintenance, Boat Maintenance, Electrical, Spark Plugs, Towing Connectors, Tune-up, Vehicle Maintenance
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Old 10-23-2019, 01:30 AM   #10
DrHolliday
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Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
Here's one "what if" condition that may have contributed to the trailer disconnect alerts:

What if, when you were backing that first time and pulled the breakaway cable, while you were reconnecting everything, you "slightly dislodged the 7 way connector" ?? That would (could) explain the intermittent alerts on the tow home. Then, on subsequent tows, the 7 way connector has been properly seated in the truck receptacle, so there's been no intermittent alerts ....

Your issue may not even include the breakaway switch or cable, they are functioning as designed, and the only contribution of the breakaway system is that dislodging of the 7 way connector resulted from accidental bumping of the connector while reinstalling the plastic pin in the breakaway switch, and the next time it happened, the 7 way connector simply wasn't fully seated.....

Just a "theory about why it only happened those times and never has happened again".....

I thought that might have been the case when I looked at it on the first stop on the last trip. Disconnected and reconnected the trailer and still had the issue.



Right now its been problem free. I have the trailer parked for the winter now. I did check resistance on the connector and it tested good. Next spring I'm going to pull the wheels and hubs to inspect the breaks before the season starts. I plan to look closely at the grounds at each wheel to make sure they are good and clean.


It might be one of those things that I'll never see happen again?
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Old 10-23-2019, 05:51 AM   #11
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It might be a "one and done" kind of event or it may happen repeatedly.

On Ford's, there has been an issue with SOME (not all) Keystone trailers. The Ford OEM 7 pin receptacle is manufactured by one brand and the trailer 7 pin connector/cable is manufactured by a different brand. There's "not supposed to be any difference" but we all know that the tread on Goodyear tires is different than the tread on Goodrich tires, so: There are some "subtle differences" is 7 pin construction between cable/connector suppliers. Whether it's a different compound to mold the body (reacts to heat/cold differently) or a difference in metal alloy used for the pins (reacts with corrosion/pitting differently) or a slight difference in sizing of the connector/pin length/slot thickness, etc)

On some Ford trucks, owners were getting repeated "trailer disconnect" messages from the computer/OEM brake controller. The fix, for many (not all) was to change the trailer umbilical cable/connector to a POLLAK brand umbilical cable/connector assembly. Apparently, Ford uses a trailer connector assembly produced by (I'm guessing: Pollak) and Keystone is installing a "low bid Chinese knockoff molded umbilical cable" that may be slightly diffrerent in sizing/connector thickness/length/or some other slightly incompatible measurement).....

If it continues in the spring, you might consider, as a trial, changing out the trailer umbilical cable/connector for a "known quality brand". I'd suggest Pollak, but there are others..... When you start towing again, please update your comments here. It'll surely come up again and again as tow vehicle computer systems get more complex and intricately sensitive.....
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Old 10-23-2019, 11:26 AM   #12
DrHolliday
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Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
It might be a "one and done" kind of event or it may happen repeatedly.

On Ford's, there has been an issue with SOME (not all) Keystone trailers. The Ford OEM 7 pin receptacle is manufactured by one brand and the trailer 7 pin connector/cable is manufactured by a different brand. There's "not supposed to be any difference" but we all know that the tread on Goodyear tires is different than the tread on Goodrich tires, so: There are some "subtle differences" is 7 pin construction between cable/connector suppliers. Whether it's a different compound to mold the body (reacts to heat/cold differently) or a difference in metal alloy used for the pins (reacts with corrosion/pitting differently) or a slight difference in sizing of the connector/pin length/slot thickness, etc)

On some Ford trucks, owners were getting repeated "trailer disconnect" messages from the computer/OEM brake controller. The fix, for many (not all) was to change the trailer umbilical cable/connector to a POLLAK brand umbilical cable/connector assembly. Apparently, Ford uses a trailer connector assembly produced by (I'm guessing: Pollak) and Keystone is installing a "low bid Chinese knockoff molded umbilical cable" that may be slightly diffrerent in sizing/connector thickness/length/or some other slightly incompatible measurement).....

If it continues in the spring, you might consider, as a trial, changing out the trailer umbilical cable/connector for a "known quality brand". I'd suggest Pollak, but there are others..... When you start towing again, please update your comments here. It'll surely come up again and again as tow vehicle computer systems get more complex and intricately sensitive.....
Will do, Thank you for the tips, and if it happens next season I'll put a new umbilical on it.
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Old 10-23-2019, 01:59 PM   #13
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Unless I'm missing something here your breakaway pin being pulled has nothing to do the the truck brake controller, a coincidence that it happened at the same time. The breakaway is a separate piece of equipment getting power from the RV to activate only the RV brakes when the pin is pulled.
Your issue has to be the umbilical connection from the truck to the RV not the breakaway system. Possibly as John stated you disturbed the plug or maybe bent some of the prongs if it was disturbed.
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Old 10-24-2019, 06:27 AM   #14
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Unless I'm missing something here your breakaway pin being pulled has nothing to do the the truck brake controller, a coincidence that it happened at the same time. The breakaway is a separate piece of equipment getting power from the RV to activate only the RV brakes when the pin is pulled.
Your issue has to be the umbilical connection from the truck to the RV not the breakaway system. Possibly as John stated you disturbed the plug or maybe bent some of the prongs if it was disturbed.
I understand that it is separate, but on these newer trucks it seems when the break away is pulled while it is still connected it shuts down the trucks brake controller so that it needs reset. I wind up having to disconnect the trailer and shut the truck off for 2+ minutes to get the brake controller to work again.

That's why i mentioned it in the post. It could have been relevant to the issue. It also took me a while to figure out how to reset the brake controller, so putting the info in this thread could possible help someone else who has this happen in the future.
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Old 10-24-2019, 09:40 PM   #15
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These seven way plugs can be very difficult to plug in fully, and if tight and without any lubrication such as dielectric grease, it is possible the plug was installed but was not fully seated to the point where the spring loaded cover has not engaged the top of the plug, and if not fully seated the plug will move around and cause intermittent contact with the electric connections. Once the plug has a bit of lubricant on it, the plug will easily be fully installed and usually there will be no issues unless there is a loose connection inside the plug or socket.
Some years ago, my Dad was having issues with water causing corrosion in the rear lights of his boat trailer. With me working for the local electric utility, I had access to little tubes of dielectric grease that would usually be disposed of if not used on our high voltage underground electric cable splices. I brought a handfull of these home to my Dad and he cleaned up the bulb sockets and put some grease in each one followed by the bulbs. Nothing worked, no brake lights, turn signals or brake lights, because the dielectric grease worked too well. We ended up getting a conductive grease made for low voltage electrical connections to use in the bulb sockets.
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Old 10-27-2019, 08:28 AM   #16
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This sounds like what happened to one of our trips. Had the messages coming up on the display on my 2012 Chevy “check trailer wiring”. Long story short, it was a truck issue. There’s a brake control relay that is tucked up on the frame rail above the spare tire. Very simple to replace, just a pain in the butt to get to. There are You Tube videos and I found the replacement relay on Amazon that was MUCH cheaper than the parts store. Swapped out the relay and the message went away. Good luck!
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Old 10-27-2019, 11:12 AM   #17
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A bit about dielectric grease.
Dielectric grease does not dissolve as most liquids do, so it is good for marine and outdoor applications. ... The grease does not conduct electricity, so it shouldn't be applied directly to the mating surfaces (pins and sockets) of an electrical connection
If you'd rather try a conductive grease to see if your issues go away, you can get that, too.
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Old 10-27-2019, 11:38 AM   #18
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If you'd rather try a conductive grease to see if your issues go away, you can get that, too.
Yes you sure can.... I'd add, if you do get conductive grease, remember that "smearing on a glob" that covers several pins can lead to "lots of sparks and shorting between all the pins that are covered by the "glob".....

So, think before you "glob".....
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Old 10-27-2019, 11:45 AM   #19
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Yes you sure can.... I'd add, if you do get conductive grease, remember that "smearing on a glob" that covers several pins can lead to "lots of sparks and shorting between all the pins that are covered by the "glob".....

So, think before you "glob".....
LOL! If you like that, you'll love conductive epoxy, making all such mistakes permanent!
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Old 10-27-2019, 11:53 AM   #20
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LOL! If you like that, you'll love conductive epoxy, making all such mistakes permanent!
Say a lot for "safe globbing" and now "safe epoxying" too....
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