Go Back   Keystone RV Forums > Keystone Fleet | Keystone RV Models > Toy Haulers
Click Here to Login

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 12-03-2019, 06:30 PM   #21
LHaven
Senior Member
 
LHaven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Wickenburg
Posts: 657
Right. That's another classic difference between science and engineering ("industry"). Science considers an "omnidirectional" antenna to be a point source radiating in all directions (isotropic). Industry realizes that an antenna with that radiation pattern has next to zero practical use, so they use the same term to mean that it merely radiates in all compass directions. It's the reduction (redirection) of the power otherwise wasted in vertical signal that produces the antenna's gain.
__________________

__________________
2019 Cougar 26RBSWE
2019 Ford F-250
LHaven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2019, 06:39 PM   #22
flybouy
Site Team
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Joppa, MD
Posts: 2,128
Quote:
Originally Posted by LHaven View Post
Right. That's another classic difference between science and engineering ("industry"). Science considers an "omnidirectional" antenna to be a point source radiating in all directions (isotropic). Industry realizes that an antenna with that radiation pattern has next to zero practical use, so they use the same term to mean that it merely radiates in all compass directions. It's the reduction (redirection) of the power otherwise wasted in vertical signal that produces the antenna's gain.
I was taught that engineering is a science. Can you tell me your source for the 7 dB gain for the omni directional antenna that you cited earlier? I was referencing the antenna itself, being non amplified and not an antenna/amplifier package.
__________________

__________________
Marshall
2012 Laredo 303 TG
2010 F250 LT Super Cab, long bed, 4X4, 6.4 Turbo Diesel
flybouy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2019, 07:17 PM   #23
LHaven
Senior Member
 
LHaven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Wickenburg
Posts: 657
Sure. Here's another very common 7dB omni.

Note that I wasn't implying that a common gain for an omnidirectional TV antenna is 7dB, only that the phrases "gain" and "omnidirectional" (as the latter term is used by broadcast engineers and marketers) are not mutually exclusive.

(Trust me, engineering is science leavened with a heaping helping of art.)
__________________
2019 Cougar 26RBSWE
2019 Ford F-250
LHaven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2019, 08:58 PM   #24
flybouy
Site Team
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Joppa, MD
Posts: 2,128
Quote:
Originally Posted by LHaven View Post
Sure. Here's another very common 7dB omni.

Note that I wasn't implying that a common gain for an omnidirectional TV antenna is 7dB, only that the phrases "gain" and "omnidirectional" (as the latter term is used by broadcast engineers and marketers) are not mutually exclusive.

(Trust me, engineering is science leavened with a heaping helping of art.)
I'm not trying to split hairs just get a clear understanding. Thank you for the 2 references for the wifi antennas that broadcast and receive and the gains are dbi which is loosely equivalent to db. The referencing gains by "The compression of the vertical signal" is relative to the broadcasting of the signal. This discussion was about a television antenna that receives signals only. Think about this, what is the 7 dbi gain referencing? Gain over what? Oh, the gain is over a "no loss omni directional antenna" which is theoretical and far beyond this discussion.

The entire point is that a directional television antenna will provide a better signal than an omnidirectional one. I don't think we need to expand this into theorems and doctoral dissertations to prove anyone's knowledge as I'm pretty sure the folks reading this could care less.
__________________
Marshall
2012 Laredo 303 TG
2010 F250 LT Super Cab, long bed, 4X4, 6.4 Turbo Diesel
flybouy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2019, 09:54 PM   #25
LHaven
Senior Member
 
LHaven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Wickenburg
Posts: 657
No, no, I absolutely agree with this. I think my new rig's newfangled omni is an abomination, given the channels I can no longer obtain from its customary parking spot (which is unfortunately directly behind my house from the broadcast city), compared to the old-fashioned wing antenna on my old rig, which could get everything my house antenna gets. I'd consider replacing it if weren't located such that the indoor crank would materialize inside a wall.

As you wrote earlier, "Antenna gain is the same during receive and transmit modes." An antenna with 10dBi transmit gain (which of course isn't an RV function, but you can measure the antenna that way to characterize it) will have the corresponding receive advantage. This is precisely why the directional RV antennas are better at fetching signal than the omnis in fringe situations.

I think one of the links I sourced observed that 20dBi was a typical "high gain" directional antenna spec. This gives you a factor of 100x gain in broadcast power or receive sensitivity, compared to only a 5x factor for a typical 7dBi omni. Now, Winegards probably won't approach that, but what looks like even a minor additional increase in dBi can give you a serious performance multiple.

I admire the manufacturers' enthusiasm to provide newbies with an antenna that you no longer have to aim before you can watch any TV, but given that more RVing is done in the back of beyond than in metropolitan areas, I think they made a seriously bad tradeoff.
__________________
2019 Cougar 26RBSWE
2019 Ford F-250
LHaven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2019, 09:56 PM   #26
chuckster57
Site Team
 
chuckster57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Modesto
Posts: 10,056
Maybe the wineguard “RAZR” is an option?
__________________

2012 Copper Canyon 273FWRET being towed by a 1994 Ford F350 CC,LB,Dually diesel.
Airlift 5000 bags, Prodigy brake control, 5 gauges on the pillar.Used to tow a '97 Jayco 323RKS.

Now an RVIA registered tech. Retired from Law enforcement in 2008 after 25+ yrs.
chuckster57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2019, 10:04 PM   #27
LHaven
Senior Member
 
LHaven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Wickenburg
Posts: 657
That looks like a pretty responsive product.

Personally, I'm not sure I watch $400 worth of TV on the road.

The other issue is that unlike my old $90 manual Winegard, which cleared every other obstruction on my roof when deployed, this unit looks like it would be seriously inconvenienced by its designated location immediately behind my air conditioner.
__________________
2019 Cougar 26RBSWE
2019 Ford F-250
LHaven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 04:10 AM   #28
chuckster57
Site Team
 
chuckster57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Modesto
Posts: 10,056
They are standard equipment on the pleasureway Class B’s. Sit close to the AC and seem to do very well.
__________________

2012 Copper Canyon 273FWRET being towed by a 1994 Ford F350 CC,LB,Dually diesel.
Airlift 5000 bags, Prodigy brake control, 5 gauges on the pillar.Used to tow a '97 Jayco 323RKS.

Now an RVIA registered tech. Retired from Law enforcement in 2008 after 25+ yrs.
chuckster57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 06:41 AM   #29
ChuckS
Senior Member
 
ChuckS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Mountain Home, Idaho
Posts: 905
The OP has asked about the Furion Omni and isn’t getting as many received channels.. the Furion is a wide banded active antenna with a 17 dB preamp.. so their website states..

It is also a multi band including LTE cell phone frequency range...

Hs current antenna will not ever be as good as any directional antenna currently available


The Rayzor automatic antenna is an automatic directional antenna that would also work much better then his current Furion...

Being able to AIM the forward to backward gain of an antenna will always result in better received signal within the passband of the receiver, preamp, and antenna

OP.. if you want better OTA TV reception yank the junk Furion off and put either a directional gain RV antenna and you will be happy..

If you want LTE then buy a dedicated LTE antenna and you’ll have better results for your cell receive
__________________

__________________


2007 GMC Classic club cab 4x4 Duramax LBZ
2014 Alpine 3010 RE. 34 foot fifth wheel
ChuckS is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
antenna

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates in any way. Keystone RV® is a registered trademark of the Keystone RV Company.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 09:25 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×