Looking for new TV - Tranny question

[pitman44]

I'm early in starting the hunt for a new TV. My last couple of trucks have been Dodges and I've had decent luck with them so most likely I'm looking at replacing my 2007 2500 gasser with a late model, 2016 or newer, Dodge diesel dually. It seems there are 3.42, 3.73 and 4.10 with the last two being most common. I know the 4.10 gives more grunt and the 3.73 better mileage.



My question is is the difference that significant either way to rule one out over the other? We're seasonal now, but my wife retires this year and I own a business so can take a little more time off so we can go on some longer jaunts in the not too distant future. And in a couple more years I plan on retiring and we'd like to see more of the country. I imagine we'll be in some mountains and some flat country.

[travelin texans]

Just FYI! The numbers you've posted are rear end gear ratios not transmission numbers.
The newer Rams with the Asian tyranny is supposedly a good combo.
As for gear ratios, my GMC has 3.73 rear end & with the 6 speed Allison with NO problems in the mountains & avg about 10-11 mpg towing a 16.5k lb 5er (mountain area drops that to about 8.5-9 mpg) & 16-17 mpg highway.

[pitman44]

Originally Posted by travelin texans

Just FYI! The numbers you've posted are rear end gear ratios not transmission numbers.
The newer Rams with the Asian tyranny is supposedly a good combo.
As for gear ratios, my GMC has 3.73 rear end & with the 6 speed Allison with NO problems in the mountains & get avg about 10-11 mpg towing a 16.5k lb 5er (mountain area drops that to about 8.5-9 mpg) & 16-17 mpg highway.

Thanks, I wasn't clear on that. It looks like you can get either the Aisin or 68RFE with a 4.10 or 3.73. I've found a truck I kind of like but with 4.10 rear end. Wondering how much of a hit on mileage that would be.

[Frank G]

Originally Posted by pitman44

Thanks, I wasn't clear on that. It looks like you can get either the Aisin or 68RFE with a 4.10 or 3.73. I've found a truck I kind of like but with 4.10 rear end. Wondering how much of a hit on mileage that would be.

In my opinion, mileage is the least you should be thinking about. How much weight are you towing and do you think you will be going heavier. The Aisin or 68RFE are performance and money issues. The Aisin will give you the HO Cummins and the maximum towing capacity. A pricey option when new. If you are not towing that heavy of a load the 68 RFE will do fine. Mileage will very depending on driving habits, speed and object towed. Running around with a 4.10 will probably reduce mileage by 1 or 2 mpg. Look up the tow ratings of each.

I tow with 3.42 gears, 68RFE and tow a 13K 5th wheel, avg. 11 to 12mpg 21empty

[sourdough]

I'm sure others will chime in that have had direct experience with a diesel dually with those ratios but I've had the 3.73, 4.10 and others in gas trucks. To me, there isn't enough difference in gas mileage to even worry about - especially not to rule one out over the other. Example; if you had a 30 gal. tank and got 10mpg with the 4.10 you would go 300 miles. If you had the 3.73 and got 11.5, a 15% increase, you would go 345 miles - not an appreciable difference to me. I'm sure others will have varying views but that's JMO.

[notanlines]

Bear in mind that there is not a direct correlation between rear axle ratio and fuel mileage. Certainly there will be a little drop when going from 3.73 to a 4.10 but wind and tire resistance enter into mileage more than RPM. Actual difference in those two when towing would most likely be in the neighborhood of 4%. Need better mileage? Slow down.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by pitman44

I'm early in starting the hunt for a new TV. My last couple of trucks have been Dodges and I've had decent luck with them so most likely I'm looking at replacing my 2007 2500 gasser with a late model, 2016 or newer, Dodge diesel dually. It seems there are 3.42, 3.73 and 4.10 with the last two being most common. I know the 4.10 gives more grunt and the 3.73 better mileage.



My question is is the difference that significant either way to rule one out over the other? We're seasonal now, but my wife retires this year and I own a business so can take a little more time off so we can go on some longer jaunts in the not too distant future. And in a couple more years I plan on retiring and we'd like to see more of the country. I imagine we'll be in some mountains and some flat country.

Well just completed the journey you are about to start!
Looked for new to us Ram DRW and started looking just a bit newer than our current 2001. Then discussions with DW we started creeping up in years until I was only looking at 2013 or newer so it would have 14,000# GVWR.
Early on I found that used Ram DRW only came in three versions Tradesman, Laramie, and Canadian. Canadian is reference to where the truck was first delivered mostly to ALBERTA (I read Oil Fields).
I didn't want a Tradesman as I needed power seats as I get leg cramps and raising the front edge of the seat helps relive the issue. You will find prices all over the board, some very near what the truck would have gone for new.
In my search several used car sites and large search area (500 miles). I used Cargurus, Auto Trader, Used Car, and a couple others.

I used this VIN lookup site for Rams, it will provide you a complete list of equipment both base and options. It makes it easy to see how stripped or loaded the truck is. It also provides the rear axle ratio, GVWR, and the transmission installed.

https://fcacommunity.force.com/RAM/s/equipment-listing

I also bought a six pack of Car Fax which will provide a history of the truck and a estimated value based on the VIN. I also use NADA to get a value of both the truck I was looking at and the car we were trading in.

We ended up finding what we felt was a good value truck that was located a six hour 350 mile drive away. The drive was well worth it.

We got a well loaded 2016 Laramie 3500 DRW Aisin with 3.73's and aluminum wheels, with 27,500 miles.

[rhagfo]

Pitman44, you didn't state what trim level you were looking for, do you have a preferred trim level?

[pitman44]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

Pitman44, you didn't state what trim level you were looking for, do you have a preferred trim level?

I've been looking at SLT or Laramie. Most likely Laramie.

[chuckster57]

I wouldn’t get a Dodge Diesel without the aisian transmission. It’s as good as the Alison IMO.

[travelin texans]

Originally Posted by notanlines

Bear in mind that there is not a direct correlation between rear axle ratio and fuel mileage. Certainly there will be a little drop when going from 3.73 to a 4.10 but wind and tire resistance enter into mileage more than RPM. Actual difference in those two when towing would most likely be in the neighborhood of 4%. Need better mileage? Slow down.

Oh but there is! It may be minimal, but lower gears increase rpms, increased rpms use more fuel.
Yes speed, terrain, wind also affect mileage because you'll have to add more rpms to maintain your desired speed.
That being said, if you own a rv of any type you better not be concerned with low fuel mileage, whether towing one or driving one. If 7 to 10 mpg really concerns you you'd better off buying a Prius & stay in hotels.

[cookinwitdiesel]

The higher torque from the 4.10 will also allow you to ride at a higher gear on the transmission for a given load and therefore lower engine RPM, so it is not straight forward higher diff gear ratio equals higher RPM and lower MPG.

I guess Chevy makes it easy, getting a diesel? You just got the 3.73 as your only option lol

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

I wouldn’t get a Dodge Diesel without the aisian transmission. It’s as good as the Alison IMO.

I agree, it so far is smooth we are 2,000 miles from our 30,000 mile service interval, the Aisin is scheduled for a fluid change. The fluid is only $66 a gallon,
Better bargain than the NV4500 at $26 Qt.! Only need 2 gallons.

Fuel filters $100 and an oil change 3 gallons and filter about $50.

[pitman44]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

I wouldn’t get a Dodge Diesel without the aisian transmission. It’s as good as the Alison IMO.

I was leaning towards the Aisin. Thanks

[pitman44]

Originally Posted by travelin texans

Oh but there is! It may be minimal, but lower gears increase rpms, increased rpms use more fuel.
Yes speed, terrain, wind also affect mileage because you'll have to add more rpms to maintain your desired speed.
That being said, if you own a rv of any type you better not be concerned with low fuel mileage, whether towing one or driving one. If 7 to 10 mpg really concerns you you'd better off buying a Prius & stay in hotels.

Is fuel usage a major concern to me? No, but it can certainly have an impact on what choice I make. If someone says to me, I have two identical items you can purchase. They will preform you task identically well for you, but one will cost you $2,000 a year more to operate. Which would you prefer? I'm buying the lower operating cost one.


I've had 3/4 ton Rams for about the last 20 years. They can't pass a gas station. I'm used to that. I hauled a race trailer for many years. Know how to make a small fortune in racing? Start with a big one. That said, if all other things are equal, I'm going for lower operating expense. Why would I pay more if I don't have to? And I hate staying in hotels/motels.

[Snoking]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

I agree, it so far is smooth we are 2,000 miles from our 30,000 mile service interval, the Aisin is scheduled for a fluid change. The fluid is only $66 a gallon,
Better bargain than the NV4500 at $26 Qt.! Only need 2 gallons.

Fuel filters $100 and an oil change 3 gallons and filter about $50.

The Mopar Aisin fluid is Mobil 3309. There is a tag on the Aisin saying to use Mobil 3309. I bought this 12 quart package, used 8 quarts. Next time at 60K will be a pan drop and filter and will require more.

https://www.amazon.com/Mobil-55221-A...8Pack+of+12%29

This is the Fleetguard filter that most use, $14.25(I guess your were including the oil in your $50 number).
https://www.genosgarage.com/product/...er/oil-filters

[Badbart56]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

I agree, it so far is smooth we are 2,000 miles from our 30,000 mile service interval, the Aisin is scheduled for a fluid change. The fluid is only $66 a gallon,
Better bargain than the NV4500 at $26 Qt.! Only need 2 gallons.

Fuel filters $100 and an oil change 3 gallons and filter about $50.

I'm surprised that the interval is still on the 30K mile schedule. The heavy duty Ford 6 speed is on a 150K mile schedule. That seemed a bit high to me but my guys at Ford tell me this is the most trouble free transmission they have seen in a truck this size. I had mine done in 2017 and the tech said it was dirty fluid but it wasn't burnt. Ford uses two cooling systems so I guess it stands to reason.

Where do you get your oil so cheap? I pay around $23 for a 5 quart container (X3) and another $17 for the filter. I do get my fuel filters online for about $56 but I also run a DieselSite filter too so I can monitor water better. Those are only about $10 each (X2).

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by pitman44

Is fuel usage a major concern to me? No, but it can certainly have an impact on what choice I make. If someone says to me, I have two identical items you can purchase. They will preform you task identically well for you, but one will cost you $2,000 a year more to operate. Which would you prefer? I'm buying the lower operating cost one.


I've had 3/4 ton Rams for about the last 20 years. They can't pass a gas station. I'm used to that. I hauled a race trailer for many years. Know how to make a small fortune in racing? Start with a big one. That said, if all other things are equal, I'm going for lower operating expense. Why would I pay more if I don't have to? And I hate staying in hotels/motels.

pitman, I think I'm confused a bit. In your initial post you asked if there was enough difference between the ratios to rule one out over the other knowing that the 4.10 gave more grunt and the 3.73 better economy. You gave no indication of decades of experience with 3/4 ton trucks which should have given you experience with different drivetrains.

Your last post asked if you had two identical items that would perform the task identically well "why would you pay $2000 more for one". First, a 4.10 and 3.73 aren't "identical". Secondly, they will not do the same job identically well; as has been said, and as you stated, the 4.10 is going to tow (pull) much better and give you more capacity (load). You seem to know that. Mileage consideration, as has been stated, is negligible. It seems your application would be better benefited by the 4.10 and seems most have agreed with that from what I can tell. Was there more to your question? As far as a $2000 savings per year it would seem you would be in complete control of that with your driving plans and habits.??

[Snoking]

Your mechanic is correct the Ford Torque shift tranny is a very good one. 150K seems to be at the other extreme to the Ram/Aisins 30K drain, 60K pan drop and filter. Chris

[Snoking]

Originally Posted by pitman44

I'm early in starting the hunt for a new TV. My last couple of trucks have been Dodges and I've had decent luck with them so most likely I'm looking at replacing my 2007 2500 gasser with a late model, 2016 or newer, Dodge diesel dually. It seems there are 3.42, 3.73 and 4.10 with the last two being most common. I know the 4.10 gives more grunt and the 3.73 better mileage.



My question is is the difference that significant either way to rule one out over the other? We're seasonal now, but my wife retires this year and I own a business so can take a little more time off so we can go on some longer jaunts in the not too distant future. And in a couple more years I plan on retiring and we'd like to see more of the country. I imagine we'll be in some mountains and some flat country.

What are you towing, weight etc. What are you planning on towing in the future? The Aisin has a low ratio in 1st and 2nd gen vs the 68RFE, which gets a load moving easier. The 3.42 gears in 5th gear are at a similar RPM as the 4.10 gears in 6th gear.

RAM has a nice towing chart for the different engine/tranny configurations that is fairly accurate for good performance.

Or SRW 3500 4x4 Aisin tows a 16K high profile 5th wheel just fine. Bonus is that it is a freeway cruiser!! 80MPH is only 1750RPM. Full timing for a 1.5 we were at 24,500 combined, towing in the West Mountains.