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Old 06-25-2018, 01:41 PM   #1
Travler
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Surge protector

Ok I am not a electrician. So this is why I am asking. A lot of treads have been saying that my 5th wheel should be hooked to a expensive surge protector. My question is why. The camp grounds that I have been to all have a breaker in their box that I hook my shore line to and I also have a main breaker in my 5th wheel. So I see that I am double protected. How am I wrong. Please explain . That is what the breakers do is protect the wiring.

Thanks to all who respond. Just trying to figure this out.
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Old 06-25-2018, 01:57 PM   #2
Frank G
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You will get a lot of answers and explanations here, some from well educated sources and some not so qualified. Might I suggest you do some research on line from reliable sources such as the manufactures of the devices and pay attention to the features of the devices they manufacture. Progressive Industries is a good start. Short answer to your question, the park pedestal and the circuit breakers in your unit give very limited protection mostly over current protection.
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Old 06-25-2018, 02:06 PM   #3
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Breakers WILL NOT protect you from a power surge. They are there to protect you from something WITHIN your RV from drawing too much amperage and causing a fire or other damage.
A power surge from an outside source is an "over voltage" situation, as opposed to Amperage, and can result in major damage to anything connected to it.
A surge protector will (help) guard against this and that is why it is recommended.
A complete EMS, or electrical management system will do that, as well as tell you if the power supply you are connected to is properly wired and grounded and if the supplied voltage is within proper specification. All things that a common circuit breaker cannot and will not do.
Hope that helps.


Added: I will also say that instead of considering a good EMS system an "expensive" addition to your RV, you should consider it as being a really cheap insurance policy on all of your on-board electrical systems and appliances that you need to only pay for once.
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Old 06-25-2018, 02:21 PM   #4
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"Breakers" perform a very minimal task. Example: you have breakers in your trailer. If you plug a toaster and some other high draw components on that circuit and pull more than that allocated breaker (say 15A) it will trip. At the ped you will have a 30 or 50A plug. If all the appliances you have on do not throw a breaker in the trailer BUT all of it combined is over the rating of the breaker in the ped it will blow. They are protecting you from pulling too much current and burning something up.....end of the breaker story. They do nothing for a power surge.

A cheap "surge protector" for the trailer, either at the ped or inline, will protect you from a power surge....so, if you have one of those and the breakers your breakers will trip when the draw is too high and the EMS will trip if you have a sudden surge - that's it.

The EMS does many other things. It provides the protections of both of the above along with reverse polarity, low voltage, high voltage, loss of ground etc.

The things that generally get a trailer, or the owner, isn't the surge or pulling too much "juice". It's the reversed polarity, lack of ground, brown outs etc. We just had one poster that fried their ped connection due to too small of an extension cord....the breaker didn't take care of it but the EMS would have.

The EMS is worth far more than you pay for it. One event when it works can save you thousands of dollars, or, your life. It analyzes the power you are getting (many rv parks have really shoddy power distribution) and won't let your trailer get hurt. The list goes on and on. It has saved my bacon several times and there are others on here that will attest to the same. I believe it is the general consensus that they are a must have for the reasons above.
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Old 06-25-2018, 02:30 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sourdough View Post
"Breakers" perform a very minimal task. Example: you have breakers in your trailer. If you plug a toaster and some other high draw components on that circuit and pull more than that allocated breaker (say 15A) it will trip. At the ped you will have a 30 or 50A plug. If all the appliances you have on do not throw a breaker in the trailer BUT all of it combined is over the rating of the breaker in the ped it will blow. They are protecting you from pulling too much current and burning something up.....end of the breaker story. They do nothing for a power surge.

A cheap "surge protector" for the trailer, either at the ped or inline, will protect you from a power surge....so, if you have one of those and the breakers your breakers will trip when the draw is too high and the EMS will trip if you have a sudden surge - that's it.

The EMS does many other things. It provides the protections of both of the above along with reverse polarity, low voltage, high voltage, loss of ground etc.

The things that generally get a trailer, or the owner, isn't the surge or pulling too much "juice". It's the reversed polarity, lack of ground, brown outs etc. We just had one poster that fried their ped connection due to too small of an extension cord....the breaker didn't take care of it but the EMS would have.

The EMS is worth far more than you pay for it. One event when it works can save you thousands of dollars, or, your life. It analyzes the power you are getting (many rv parks have really shoddy power distribution) and won't let your trailer get hurt. The list goes on and on. It has saved my bacon several times and there are others on here that will attest to the same. I believe it is the general consensus that they are a must have for the reasons above.
Yep... EMS, Slide Awnings and Auto Level are must haves..
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Old 06-25-2018, 02:44 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by sourdough View Post
... It has saved my bacon several times ...
We've had ours (Progressive Industry hardwired) a little over a year; already it has saved us from a reverse polarity and several undervoltage situations.

Like said above ... cheap insurance.
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Old 06-25-2018, 02:57 PM   #7
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Javi's quote: Yep... EMS, Slide Awnings and Auto Level are must haves.
I would mark that "true" on the test.
I do not understand why all the major RV manufactures do not include EMS systems in the build. Slide covers (not sure here,might be aftermarket only) and auto level yes, but EMS no?
I don't think the $400 price is going to make the difference in a sale. And much easier installed at the factory.
Just my thoughts.
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Old 06-25-2018, 03:18 PM   #8
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Most rv parks/campgrounds utilities are showing their age, add to that most are maintained by folks that aren't or never were electricians & rvs are getting more & more high tech with lots of electronic equipment, so the surge protector/ems is very cheap insurance compared to a fridge, several tv's, water heater, as well as what you've pulled into the outlets.
I agree the surge protector/EMS should be mandatory equipment installed at the factory, but it would be like most items they add, the cheapest crap on the market, so maybe best we add our own.
Also mine has saved us more than once & on one occasion fried the protector.
Simple answer, if you don't have one, get one asap!
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Old 06-25-2018, 03:50 PM   #9
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We have the
Progressive Industries EMS-PT50X Portable RV Surge Protector - 50 Amp. Purchased from Amazon.
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Old 06-25-2018, 04:10 PM   #10
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I’ve seen first hand what “dirty voltage” can do to appliances, tv’s, components, etc. in homes. Not to mention the safety aspect.

Like most have already said above, the loss of a ground (among other things) at your shore power pedestal could be very hazardous, even life threatening. An EMS will shut you down if this, or any other “bad thing” happens at the ped.

A cheaper surge protector will give you a nice pretty light indicating a problem, but if you see it, then it’s too late. Damage may have already been caused.

I installed a hardwired unit inside the trailer to eliminate the possibility of theft. It was one of the first mods I did. Also has a lifetime warranty (Progressive Industries)

I’d rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.
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Old 06-25-2018, 05:14 PM   #11
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I have been looking for one and just ordered the 50 amp hardwired progressive industries from amazon. My 30 amp on the travel trailer saved me twice from pedistals mis wired
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Old 06-28-2018, 02:34 AM   #12
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In Nashville a couple weeks ago... During a lightning storm, DW actually complained when the TV shut off twice when my Progressive Hard wire noticed the over voltage and shut everything off....


When I explained that she will be glad when the TV actually comes back on.... She still complained.... But that's why i love her....
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Old 06-28-2018, 06:43 AM   #13
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An EMS (electrical management system) does far more than just surge protection. It will disconnect the power source for various faults as mentioned including over or under voltage, improper wiring, missing neutral and ground. One very important aspect not mentioned yet is the time delay. Have you ever seen the "lights flicker" during a wind storm or lightning event? Typically it's caused by the power company overvoltage protection. When that happens it can burn up the air conditioner compressor and wipe out sensitive electronics such as refrigerator control boards. The EMS will have a time delay built in so when the power is interrupted it will take 30 seconds to a minute before the EMS will reset and allow the power back on saving these appliances.
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Old 06-28-2018, 06:55 AM   #14
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I have the Progressive portable EMS 50amp. The campground at the lake where we have a permanent setup has constant low voltage issues (106 to 107) sometimes to where we can't run one ac let alone both. I just got the Hughes Autoformer RV220-50SP. My question is can I run the Progressive after the Autoformer or is it necessary since I have the Autoformer. Have used progressive for years but have heard good thing s about the Autoformer as well.
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Old 06-28-2018, 07:12 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harleydodge View Post
Breakers WILL NOT protect you from a power surge.

***

A surge protector will (help) guard against this and that is why it is recommended.
***

Added: I will also say that instead of considering a good EMS system an "expensive" addition to your RV, you should consider it as being a really cheap insurance policy on all of your on-board electrical systems and appliances that you need to only pay for once.

I agree, and "bit the bullet" on buying the "expensive," full EMS system from Progressive (30 amp PTC model), which I figured was much cheaper than replacing all the electronic control boards in the TT's applicances. Plus, it let's me know if there's something "funky" with the RV park's AC supply BEFORE I plug the TT into it! Some of the older RV parks especially can have wildly fluctuating voltages from what I have read, and having spent many years in the Amateur Radio hobby, I know that can be "quick death" to sensitive electronics.
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Old 06-28-2018, 08:56 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple GGG View Post
I have the Progressive portable EMS 50amp. The campground at the lake where we have a permanent setup has constant low voltage issues (106 to 107) sometimes to where we can't run one ac let alone both. I just got the Hughes Autoformer RV220-50SP. My question is can I run the Progressive after the Autoformer or is it necessary since I have the Autoformer. Have used progressive for years but have heard good thing s about the Autoformer as well.
The Hughes unit has 4,800 Joules of protection. The Progressive portable units vary, but they're around 3,600 Joules. It wouldn't hurt anything to use the Progressive unit after the autoformer, but it may not be necessary.
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Old 06-28-2018, 12:23 PM   #17
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Triple GGG I have an older 30 amp Autoformer that I use upstream of my EMS with no issues. Have been using in that form for years.
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Old 06-28-2018, 02:36 PM   #18
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Thanks for the input. I ran up and setup the Autoformer with the Progressive EMS downstream. Everything worked fantastic. I had 107 volts and after installing both ACs ran just fine. I even fired up the microwave while they were running. I'm very happy. With all these storms rolling through the Knoxville area I may need 4 surge protectors. Lol.
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Old 07-01-2018, 11:09 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Plumbtrician View Post
...

I installed a hardwired unit inside the trailer to eliminate the possibility of theft. It was one of the first mods I did. Also has a lifetime warranty (Progressive Industries)

I’d rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.
i added a generator (and transfer switch) to my 5th wheel and added the hardwired progressive EMS 50amp unit at the same time. didn't like the price, but have seen the results of not having one.
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Old 07-01-2018, 11:27 AM   #20
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We were camping in a Florida and I did not think I need to put mine on. That night we had thunder and lighting storm. To top it off the was also a power surge,
Long story short, did about $1800 damages to my 5th and nothing really work that well afterwards.
I now put my on no matter what.
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