Hello All, noob question - Yet another tow vehicle question

[Sambucus]

Hello All,
I am moving this from the new user intro forum, because I never read instructions first. Sorry


My wife and I decided, now that I am on the glide path to retirement (6 years or so) to get an RV and camp with the grandchildren and snowbird later. I have heard the advice "buy your third trailer first".

I purchased a 2019 Silverado 1500 CC SB with a tow package, rated 9500 lbs towing.

We are zeroing in on a Passport GT 2950BH. We love the floor plane (as do the grandkids) and it looks to be the right feature/quality/price balance.

That said, I am an engineer and therefore I over-analyze everything. All the math says that this trailer will fit the truck and I should be fine, but never having owned a trailer, I am looking for some real world facts to confirm this. My research is all over the map, some say 6000 GVWR trailer for this truck to allow plenty of margin, (this trailer is 6145 dry, 7800 GVWR)

As I said, all the math works, but am I too close to max, realistically?

Thanks for any advice!

A few more details

5.3 liter with 3.42 (I think). Combined GVW 15000 lbs, truck GVWR is 7100. Max hitch is listed at 960. Max Payload is 2095

The trailer shows a hitch weight of 705

I have SOOO much to learn..

If I have to get a smaller trailer I am OK with it, but my wife really likes this one. The truck is 3 months old, so no upgrade there for awhile.

[Canonman]

That 5.3 with 3:42 gears will struggle on any hills. It will pull the Passport but will require lots of patience when climbing or descending any significant grades. Again, get some LT tires on the truck and invest in a quality weight distribution hitch with sway control. Keystone has several similar but smaller models that will be lighter and may fit your truck better. The 240BH might be an option??

[Sambucus]

Thanks for the tip on the tires. I will look at the smaller TT, just have to talk my family in to it (their idea of "roughing it" is very different from mine)

[JRTJH]

There are a couple of considerations that don't seem to be included in your "numbers"...

First, the tongue weight of 704 pounds, is empty. You'll need to add about 50 pounds for a single battery, more if you intend to upgrade to dual batteries and you'll also need to add 40 pounds for propane. There are two 20 pound propane tanks on the trailer, but the specs only include the weight of the tanks, not the propane (the trailer leaves the factory with no propane.

It's usually "safest" and closer to accurate weights, to use the truck GVW, trailer GVW and estimate the tongue weight to be somewhere between 12-15% of the trailer GVW. You'll also need to add the weight of the hitch (usually around 100-150 pounds) to that calculation.

So, essentially, your "complete rig" would weigh around 7100 (truck) + 7800 (trailer) = 14900 total weight. Using the trailer GVW of 7800 pounds would give an estimated tongue weight somewhere between 936 and 1170 pounds (12-15% of GVW). plus the weight of the hitch assembly.

You didn't include the GCWR rating for your truck, so I'm not sure how close to the maximum total weight capacity for the rig, but I'd suspect you're going to be "very close" with a total estimated weight of 14900.

[Sambucus]

That is correct GCVW is 15000, so this is like right at the limit.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Sambucus

That is correct GCVW is 15000, so this is like right at the limit.

All of the auto manufacturers use "sleight of hand" when calculating the maximum trailer weight allowable. On your truck, with a GCWR of 15000 pounds, the truck would have to be empty (or nearly so) to tow a 9000 pound trailer. If you add passengers and cargo/trailer tongue weight to get closer to the truck's GVW, that "allowable trailer weight" goes down "pound for pound"...

So, if you hitch up a 8000 pound trailer and add 2 grandkids, grandma and around 500 pounds of cargo weight, you'll be over the GCWR, even though the trailer is 1000 pounds lighter than the maximum.... Advertising magic is the only name I can put to the practice.

[notanlines]

Also as an engineer, and since you over-analyze everything, you should have known to buy the RV first and the TV to match the requirements second.

[FlyingAroundRV]

Also, subtract from your payload numbers anything that will be carried in the truck, like people/pets, fuel, stuff carried in the bed...
Using the numbrs John gave you for the calcs is the realistic starting point.
IMO, a 150 size truck is a little on the lean side for a 29' trailer. You will likely find the towing experience "challenging" with that combo.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Sambucus

Hello All,
I am moving this from the new user intro forum, because I never read instructions first. Sorry


My wife and I decided, now that I am on the glide path to retirement (6 years or so) to get an RV and camp with the grandchildren and snowbird later. I have heard the advice "buy your third trailer first".

I purchased a 2019 Silverado 1500 CC SB with a tow package, rated 9500 lbs towing.

We are zeroing in on a Passport GT 2950BH. We love the floor plane (as do the grandkids) and it looks to be the right feature/quality/price balance.

That said, I am an engineer and therefore I over-analyze everything. All the math says that this trailer will fit the truck and I should be fine, but never having owned a trailer, I am looking for some real world facts to confirm this. My research is all over the map, some say 6000 GVWR trailer for this truck to allow plenty of margin, (this trailer is 6145 dry, 7800 GVWR)

As I said, all the math works, but am I too close to max, realistically?

Thanks for any advice!

A few more details

5.3 liter with 3.42 (I think). Combined GVW 15000 lbs, truck GVWR is 7100. Max hitch is listed at 960. Max Payload is 2095

The trailer shows a hitch weight of 705

I have SOOO much to learn..

If I have to get a smaller trailer I am OK with it, but my wife really likes this one. The truck is 3 months old, so no upgrade there for awhile.

First off, completely, totally forget the "9500 lb. tow rating". It is meaningless and just a sales gimmick to lead folks to buy a truck not suited to the job at hand.

Some other thoughts; your receiver max. weight is listed as 960lbs. A 7800 lb. trailer (and you will get there trying to take grandkids and have fun) at 15% tongue weight is 1170lbs. Now add the 100-150 lbs. for the wdh/sway control required and you can see you have a problem. I used the 15%, which is generally considered max because you never know how the trailer is laid out or how you will load. At 12% (which I run) it would be 936; still over the receiver rating with the hitch.

The old saying of "buying your 3rd trailer first" considers that you have bought enough TV for said "3rd trailer", not your 1st truck and strap your 3rd upgraded trailer to it.

There ARE lots of things to consider when attempting to throw a larger trailer on the back of a truck; particularly a 1/2 ton. Here is a response I made in the last couple of days to another person asking about the same thing you are:

"The hitch will help but always bear in mind that the 1/2 ton is meant primarily as a comfortable grocery getter and "light" hauler of some 2x4s, plywood, washing machine etc. Not a lot of weight strapped on the back of the frame that subjects the truck to all kinds of pushes, pulls, shoves and twists. The primary purpose listed above is why they come with light duty springs, shocks, tires, ring and pinon, axles, u joints etc. etc.

Replacing the WDH/sway is a start but researching your vehicle I didn't see any option for a tire upgrade; they are all P rated tires (passenger). That in and of itself will allow the push/pull because the softer sidewalls flex and allow the truck to "slide" left and right when subjected to the push/pull of trucks, wind etc. They need to be LTs. Springs are softer so they will allow the same thing. It doesn't make a lot of sense to try to replace the springs on a new truck but I would put in a set of air bags. It won't increase the payload but it will "stiffen" the movement of the body/axle and minimize just one more weak spot. The shocks are "soft" as well so going to the grocery store is "comfortable" - not stiff to minimize body roll and sway. Replace them with a heavy duty shock; I use/used Bilsteins."

As an additional point: if you are going to be taking grandkids with you, you want to err on the side of safety, not be "at the max". To me that means a reserve cushion of 10-15% below your max ratings on everything....payload, gvw, gawr, gcvwr etc. Look at ALL of them because they all count.

[notanlines]

And even if you don’t have the kids, the rest of us do!!!

[Sambucus]

Well, to be fair, this started as the wife wanting a restored Scotty or Shasta. A few years ago we went to a flea market in Dublin, NH where everyone was showing these off in kind of a mini "show". Then she decided she wanted a full bath, full kitchen, etc. So the target moved.

At the time we bought the truck, we went to the local chain dealer (not Camping World) where the salesman, very responsibly, referred us to a Grey Wolf 26DJSE, at about 7000 GVWR and around 4700 dry. This is still an option, but I was worried about quality of these things in my research. So we started looking a bigger units, with more options, slides (Grey Wolf had no slides), better quality, etc. an we ended up with this issue.

So, probably back to the original result, smaller, no slides, etc.

And the search continues.

[Sambucus]

Sourdough, thank you for the excellent advice. You are quite correct, of course

[Roscommon48]

to small of an engine.
and, if this is your first rv, buy a used one.
as for the grand kids, you'll be surprised how much they aren't interested in camping, get one that you like.

[notanlines]

Originally Posted by Roscommon48

to small of an engine.
and, if this is your first rv, buy a used one.
as for the grand kids, you'll be surprised how much they aren't interested in camping, get one that you like.

I loved how you phrased this: 'get one that you like.'
I'll ask before Danny or one of the 'others' do: Get an RV or get a grandchild that you like...
At times, both are hard to find....

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Sambucus

Well, to be fair, this started as the wife wanting a restored Scotty or Shasta. A few years ago we went to a flea market in Dublin, NH where everyone was showing these off in kind of a mini "show". Then she decided she wanted a full bath, full kitchen, etc. So the target moved.

At the time we bought the truck, we went to the local chain dealer (not Camping World) where the salesman, very responsibly, referred us to a Grey Wolf 26DJSE, at about 7000 GVWR and around 4700 dry. This is still an option, but I was worried about quality of these things in my research. So we started looking a bigger units, with more options, slides (Grey Wolf had no slides), better quality, etc. an we ended up with this issue.

So, probably back to the original result, smaller, no slides, etc.

And the search continues.

Daniel,

You aren't doing anything new. I, and I suspect most on this forum and others, have gone in looking for one thing and that "thing" grew right before us, right in our mind, as we walked along looking at one trailer then another even though we knew what our vehicle limitations were....making mental notes on how this weight or that would be "OK" if I just did this or that. I'm guilty as charged. I knew exactly what I was doing when I bought a trailer that would overload the truck all the while rationalizing that I would compensate in one way or the other....and I did; with a bigger truck.

Just saying that you and your DW are doing exactly what we all do. In my case I went with what we found that we really wanted even if it was too big because I knew I could buy a new truck if required. We are extremely happy that we did....and contented with the unit to this day. The smaller unit, bought to "fit the TV", would have left us wanting and in the same "upgrade" routine so many experience.

If you are unable to upgrade TV then I think you are on track with reassessing the trailer and what will work with the truck. If possible, I would look at what the minimum would be size wise that would make it comfortable for both you and DW as well as the grandkids and shoot at that....if you can make the transition to a new truck. I know you said yours is only 3 mos. old, and I've not gotten rid of a 3 mo. old truck; but I have a 6mo. old truck - to get the current truck in my signature. It was, and has been, one of the best decisions I've ever made as far as vehicles go; and after such a back on forth on this and other forums because I didn't like HD trucks.

Personally, if you are going to take the grandkids with you for a few years (ours totally loved getting off grid in tents, popups or RVs) then try to transition to retirement (we have been for 13 years) I would HIGHLY recommend something with opposing LR slides at the minimum. The comfort from the space they provide is incalculable. I can also tell you from experience that a 25' trailer with no slides and 2 children gets way old, way fast; sitting in a corner waiting while one, then the other wanders down the only aisle so you can get to the bedroom, kitchen or bathroom.....

Think about that bigger truck and trailer....it's only money and after all....you're looking at retirement!!!

[Bolo4u]

Originally Posted by Sambucus

Well, to be fair, this started as the wife wanting a restored Scotty or Shasta. A few years ago we went to a flea market in Dublin, NH where everyone was showing these off in kind of a mini "show". Then she decided she wanted a full bath, full kitchen, etc. So the target moved.

At the time we bought the truck, we went to the local chain dealer (not Camping World) where the salesman, very responsibly, referred us to a Grey Wolf 26DJSE, at about 7000 GVWR and around 4700 dry. This is still an option, but I was worried about quality of these things in my research. So we started looking a bigger units, with more options, slides (Grey Wolf had no slides), better quality, etc. an we ended up with this issue.

So, probably back to the original result, smaller, no slides, etc.

And the search continues.

Good on the on the sales person being responsible and pointing you to a safe combo, unlike other locations where you may have left towing a Montana 5th wheel.

[Sambucus]

Thank you Sourdough (I think). You have given me much to think about.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Sambucus

Thank you Sourdough (I think). You have given me much to think about.

My only intention is to help, pose questions, post experiences and opinions from those situations that hopefully generate questions or open new possibilities for anyone looking to "get into the RV" lifestyle. In the old days (70s or so) it truly was..."I got a truck, I can pull most anything". I, and others, did so many things pulling so much stuff that probably should have killed me....but didn't.

Now, we have so many ways of knowing all the limitations, the vehicles are so advanced, the trailers are now so BIG....it's no longer about "can my truck PULL it" - they all can because the powertrains are so advanced...to PULL. CARRYING (supporting) the weight of is the weak point for all 1/2 tons and any other truck that one wishes to overload. CARRYING is the point; the weakness; the danger. Manufacturers, IMO, do everything they can to blur that distinction to sell trucks (1/2 ton towable etc.) and thereby put innocent, unknowledgeable folks in danger; again, IMO. The only stopgap, to me, is trying to share information with potential owners that point out the disparities between "advertisements" and "real life". Unfortunately the only solution is the potential buyer doing his own due diligence based on knowledge; that doesn't happen in most cases and is sad. In that case, you (others) have these forums where folks try to help as best they can (and they have taught me TONS over the years).

[Sambucus]

Sourdough, I am very grateful that technology allows me to draw on the experience of others. Spoke to the wife last night about 239ML or Apex Nano. New plan is to sell whatever we have to a daughter in a few years, upgrade truck and go bigger. In the mean time, have fun and gain experience.

Thinking about it though, even those smaller rigs might be OK for just the two of us on "escape winter" trips to AZ or to visit family in Utah. So still plenty of options, to be determined by experience.

Many thanks to you and the others for your guidance. It is greatly appreciated.

[RWRiley]

Originally Posted by Sambucus

I purchased a 2019 Silverado 1500 CC SB with a tow package, rated 9500 lbs towing.

5.3 liter with 3.42 (I think). Combined GVW 15000 lbs, truck GVWR is 7100. Max hitch is listed at 960. Max Payload is 2095

When you say tow package, are you talking about the "Max Trailer Pack" option ? If so - your capacities might be higher than you listed. With Max Trailer Pack GCWR=16,800, Max Trailer Weight (I know, I know) = 11,300. I don't have GVWR, but it might be a little higher than you listed. My 2019 Tahoe (with Max Trailer Pack) is 7,300.

Here is where I'm getting the above information:

https://www.chevrolet.com/content/da...ring-guide.pdf

If you have only the Trailering Equipment package None of the above applies

Also - I see a lot of comments about 1/2 ton trucks not being real tow vehicles, and I don't agree. I'm on my 3rd Tahoe (1/2 Ton) and have pulled trailers with all of them with no major mechanical problems or incidents. I have always paid attention to the weight capacity numbers the Chevy engineers specify, and make sure I have a margin of error. I agree that Max Trailer weight is about useless.