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Old 09-29-2017, 04:27 AM   #21
Desert185
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Originally Posted by rhagfo View Post
My point is that the extra 4,000# capacity 16,000# vs 12,000# on a tire load of about 10,000# is overkill and as most insist on running ST at max air pressure then they will be like the Fintstones tires rock hard and beat the heck out of the trailer.
Not any worse than the stiff sidewalls of the Sailuns, but less unsprung weight and less rotating braking resistance. Increasing the margin is good, depending on the actual weight of the trailer, but sometimes overkill really is overkill.
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Old 09-29-2017, 06:57 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by rhagfo View Post
My point is that the extra 4,000# capacity 16,000# vs 12,000# on a tire load of about 10,000# is overkill and as most insist on running ST at max air pressure then they will be like the Fintstones tires rock hard and beat the heck out of the trailer.
The Carlisle LR F tires are a significant "step down" from the Sailun/Goodyear LR G tires. While they are stiffer than the LR E tires (95 vs 80 PSI) they are not nearly as stiff as the Sailun/Goodyear LR G tires (110 PSI).

I get it that you're a proponent of using LT tires on fifth wheels. That's ONE viable option, but yours is not the ONLY option. I have heard of no one on the forum having a blowout with Carlisle Radial Trail tires in the past 4 or 5 years, the length of time I've been watching Carlisle's track record.

There is a suggested 10% per year degredation that occurs with ST tires. With the 5 year "suggested lifetime" that is a 50% loss of capacity in 5 years.

Doing the math, with 10K on the axles, let's consider that there is 2500 pounds on each wheel. Given the 3960 rating of the LR F tires, with 10% loss per year, even those tires would be "at max capacity" in about 4 years.

I wouldn't suppose that LT tires have "no degredation" so they also would lose load capacity through age and use.

As for your reference to "flintstone tires", many of us (me included) have experienced improved handling and ride stability when increasing tire size/load rating from D to E (increased tire pressure from 65 PSI to 80 PSI) on trailers in the 8000 pound axle weight range. There's nothing to suggest that the increase on 10000 pound axle weight range to 95 PSI would create what you refer to as "the flintstone tires" or that they would "beat the heck out of the trailer". Increasing to LR G (110 PSI) however, has been reported on this forum to be suspected to cause spring hanger twisting from the sidewalls not flexing because of rigidity. I have no details that would indicate that was the only cause for his hanger failure, neither did the owner, but it is one of the suspected causes, so increasing to LR G tires on a trailer in the 10K axle rate range may well be "overkill" as I suggested in my response indicating that as an option, LR F tires might be appropriate.

I get it, you like LT tires more than ST tires, but they are not the only option and many would prefer not to use them. Let's face it, special trailer (ST) tires are here to stay, at least for the current technology. The objective, increasing tire load capacity and finding reputable ST tires is the focus of this thread. You posts suggest that "if you don't use LT tires, you're in for trouble". I just don't buy that as objective truth or the "only answer" to buying tires for a fifth wheel and I don't believe that you have to spend $2000 on Goodyear G614's or $800 on Sailun LR G tires in order to find ST tires appropriate for a fifth wheel with a GVW of 12,000 pounds.
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Old 09-29-2017, 07:34 AM   #23
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The is a limit to what you can run LT truck tires on and it is about 13,000# GVWR. I will say that the 12 year old LT that came off our rig still look very good, only started developing age cracks in the last year. Were we pushing it a bit, yes, but most trips this last year were about 150 miles. Wanted the freshest tires available befor we started full time.
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Old 09-29-2017, 08:55 AM   #24
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That's why I don't care to overkill with lighter RV. The ride is rough and California roads will dislodge even more of the short screws in my RV. Thanks everyone for your input. Sure appreciate the opinions.
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Old 10-01-2017, 04:56 AM   #25
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10 ply H rated tires.

OVERKILL!!! I believe in it. My 2000 Montana GVW is 13,000 lbs. The tires I just put on are ADVANTA 3000T. Sidewalls are thick and very strong. http://www.advantatire.com/commercia...ailer/av3000t/
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Old 10-01-2017, 06:33 AM   #26
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Since we replaced the GY Marathons with Sailuns about 2 years ago, have not had near the problems inside the rig like clothes jumping off the hangers, stuff jumping out of cabinets or off shelves. The Sailuns are run at 110 PSI and the rig pulls easier and smoother with them. So I don't buy the idea that higher inflation makes for a rougher ride. We see quite a few apparently newbys pulling big rigs at 70 MPH or more, so I'm guessing they would have a problem inside the rig regardless of which tire they are running.
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Old 11-20-2017, 08:58 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Barbell View Post
Since we replaced the GY Marathons with Sailuns about 2 years ago, have not had near the problems inside the rig like clothes jumping off the hangers, stuff jumping out of cabinets or off shelves. The Sailuns are run at 110 PSI and the rig pulls easier and smoother with them. So I don't buy the idea that higher inflation makes for a rougher ride. We see quite a few apparently newbys pulling big rigs at 70 MPH or more, so I'm guessing they would have a problem inside the rig regardless of which tire they are running.
We've had a very illuminating discussion about tire pressures over in the Tires,Tires,Tires forum. What I learned is that you don't necessarily have to run an ST tire at its maximum rated pressure, instead you can run it at a pressure that is appropriate for the actual load (weight) you're placing on it. In my case, running my Sailuns at 110psi actually does provide a rough ride for the trailer (my loaded trailer weight is probably considerably less than yours Barbell), so I'm going to try running them at 80-90psi. According to a tire inflation chart provided by Sailun, that pressure is appropriate given the weight on my tires when my trailer is fully loaded.

See the other thread for details: http://www.keystoneforums.com/forums...ad.php?t=31041

post #4 is where the good stuff starts.

This forum is great, I'm learning so much!
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Old 11-21-2017, 06:08 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattE303 View Post
We've had a very illuminating discussion about tire pressures over in the Tires,Tires,Tires forum. What I learned is that you don't necessarily have to run an ST tire at its maximum rated pressure, instead you can run it at a pressure that is appropriate for the actual load (weight) you're placing on it. In my case, running my Sailuns at 110psi actually does provide a rough ride for the trailer (my loaded trailer weight is probably considerably less than yours Barbell), so I'm going to try running them at 80-90psi. According to a tire inflation chart provided by Sailun, that pressure is appropriate given the weight on my tires when my trailer is fully loaded.

See the other thread for details: http://www.keystoneforums.com/forums...ad.php?t=31041

post #4 is where the good stuff starts.

This forum is great, I'm learning so much!

Is "fully loaded" referencing your actual load on the axles or the trailer's GVWR?

OE tires are fitted as being appropriate for the trailer's GAWRs.

According to tire industry standards, plus sized replacement tires must provide, via inflation, a load capacity equal to what the OE tires provided when serviced to their recommended inflation pressures shown on the tire placard.

When serviced to the load carried you have zero load capacity reserves. Why purchase tires with oodles of available load capacity reserves and then not take advantage of it? An under inflated "over kill" tire is going to fail just like any other under inflated tire.

When referencing the manufacturer's building instructions, "appropriate" inflation pressure is what is listed on the vehicle's certification label as recommended cold inflation pressure for the OE tires. They are the "benchmark" for all subsequent replacements.
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Old 11-21-2017, 06:51 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by MattE303 View Post
In my case, running my Sailuns at 110psi actually does provide a rough ride for the trailer so I'm going to try running them at 80-90psi.
Your signature lists your fiver as being a 2017 Keystone Carbon 337.

According to Keystone's spec sheet the OE tires were the new LRF ST235/80R16F and have a load capacity of 3630# @ 95 PSI.

Is that what's on your trailer's certification label?
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Old 11-21-2017, 09:11 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by CWtheMan View Post
Is "fully loaded" referencing your actual load on the axles or the trailer's GVWR?

OE tires are fitted as being appropriate for the trailer's GAWRs.

According to tire industry standards, plus sized replacement tires must provide, via inflation, a load capacity equal to what the OE tires provided when serviced to their recommended inflation pressures shown on the tire placard.

When serviced to the load carried you have zero load capacity reserves. Why purchase tires with oodles of available load capacity reserves and then not take advantage of it? An under inflated "over kill" tire is going to fail just like any other under inflated tire.

When referencing the manufacturer's building instructions, "appropriate" inflation pressure is what is listed on the vehicle's certification label as recommended cold inflation pressure for the OE tires. They are the "benchmark" for all subsequent replacements.
By "fully loaded" I meant what my trailer actually weights at the CAT scale with everything loaded for a trip, fresh water full, etc. In my case, that's 11,080 lbs on the axles (total trailer weight 13,980 lbs). GVWR for my trailer is 16,755 so I'm well below that.

The trailer came with Trailer King 235/80R16 Load Range E tires (max inflation on sidewall says 80 psi). The tire certification sticker on the trailer indicates 235/80R16E tires, recommended inflation pressure 80psi.

The Sailuns I put on are not plus sized, they're the same size as the OE tires (235/80R16), but they're Load Range G instead of E, and, in my mind, a better quality tire.

Given my actual CAT scale weight, and the Sailun chart, it was my understanding that by running the Sailuns at 80-90 psi, I was giving myself significant capacity reserves, and not under inflating, am I wrong about that?
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Old 11-21-2017, 09:23 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by CWtheMan View Post
Your signature lists your fiver as being a 2017 Keystone Carbon 337.

According to Keystone's spec sheet the OE tires were the new LRF ST235/80R16F and have a load capacity of 3630# @ 95 PSI.

Is that what's on your trailer's certification label?
My trailer is a 2017 Carbon 337, but as I indicated in my previous post, it came with LRE tires, max 80psi (and that is also what my sticker indicates). It would appear they changed the spec after my trailer was built. In light of that, it would probably make sense to run 95psi in my Sailuns...still better than 110psi.
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Old 11-21-2017, 10:20 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by MattE303 View Post
My trailer is a 2017 Carbon 337, but as I indicated in my previous post, it came with LRE tires, max 80psi (and that is also what my sticker indicates). It would appear they changed the spec after my trailer was built. In light of that, it would probably make sense to run 95psi in my Sailuns...still better than 110psi.
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