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11-25-2018, 09:57 AM
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#1
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Member
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Moscow, ID
Posts: 94
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6V Lil Monsters!
While we continue to research lithium ion battery options for our 2015 Fuzion 325, we splurged on 6 deep cycle golf cart batteries from Costco in hopes that would give us enough added juice for our new made in China toaster.
How the f are we going to put these lil monsters in the battery space? There’s barely enough room for two! We’ve been thinking about putting together a 2”x4” wood rectangular corral in our storage compartment and snuggly lining up the batteries there. I guess we would need to somehow reroute the RV cables to the storage compartment.
We’ve also been looking at battery storage compartments but found nothing to accommodate 6 of them. We have a Onan 5500 power plant and we’ll be getting solar installed soon.
Anyone else have a similar setup? Newbies seeking support, taking all offers!
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11-25-2018, 10:48 AM
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#2
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,979
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We camped with a "full timer" last summer. He had a very impressive solar system installed on the roof and eight 6 volt batteries. He had removed the aft wall of his forward passthrough and built a battery compartment under the fifth wheel bathroom.
One thing I'd have to say about your trailer and future plans, with the generator, 6 batteries and a solar system, you will have used a significant chunk of your payload.
__________________
John
2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
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11-25-2018, 10:58 AM
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#3
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Site Team | Emeritus
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 3,878
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JMO, but for me I'd fire up the generator long enough to to make toast and shut it down. But that's me.
__________________
Chip Bruce, RPh
Kansas City, MO
2016 Impact 312
2017 Silverado 3500HD SRW
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11-25-2018, 11:06 AM
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#4
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Member
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Moscow, ID
Posts: 94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctbruce
JMO, but for me I'd fire up the generator long enough to to make toast and shut it down. But that's me.
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Nice thought! We haven’t fired up once. Then again, we’ve only been Rving for a couple of months and we’ve been using shore power. 🤪
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11-25-2018, 11:10 AM
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#5
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Member
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Moscow, ID
Posts: 94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH
We camped with a "full timer" last summer. He had a very impressive solar system installed on the roof and eight 6 volt batteries. He had removed the aft wall of his forward passthrough and built a battery compartment under the fifth wheel bathroom.
One thing I'd have to say about your trailer and future plans, with the generator, 6 batteries and a solar system, you will have used a significant chunk of your payload.
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Nice story! I would have loved to have seen his setup. You’re dead on about payload concerns. We’ll be running up against the 16.5K max. We’re looking at flex solar to keep the weight down to a minimum on the roof and we’re upgrading from 6-leaf to 8-leaf springs this week and putting in a crossmember between the axles. Disc brakes and 8K axle conversions are in our future plans. 🙏🏼
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11-25-2018, 11:34 AM
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#6
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,979
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Remember that adding 8K axles, 8-leaf springs, disc brakes all add weight to the trailer. There is more to GVW/payload than just what the suspension will carry. You've got a lot of other components that all contribute to the GVW. When you consider all the "electrical management mods" you're considering, adding the additional weight of the upgraded axles, springs, cross members, etc, you're further reducing your payload..... It's a "balancing act" to build a trailer strong enough to carry the payload and building part of the package too strong at the expense of other components.....
Adding "stronger stuff" isn't always the best approach, just as adding 8 batteries (800 pounds) to run a toaster may not be the most efficient "weight management vs electrical capacity decision"... YMMV
__________________
John
2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
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11-26-2018, 11:59 AM
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#7
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Member
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Moscow, ID
Posts: 94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH
Remember that adding 8K axles, 8-leaf springs, disc brakes all add weight to the trailer. There is more to GVW/payload than just what the suspension will carry. You've got a lot of other components that all contribute to the GVW. When you consider all the "electrical management mods" you're considering, adding the additional weight of the upgraded axles, springs, cross members, etc, you're further reducing your payload..... It's a "balancing act" to build a trailer strong enough to carry the payload and building part of the package too strong at the expense of other components.....
Adding "stronger stuff" isn't always the best approach, just as adding 8 batteries (800 pounds) to run a toaster may not be the most efficient "weight management vs electrical capacity decision"... YMMV
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Gotcha. Each battery weighs 58.4 lbs. x 6 = just under 360 lbs!!! Wow. A lot of weight. Wonder what the storage space weight limit is? We're looking at Battle Born lithium batteries as a longterm solution later down the road. The total weight for 6 of those is 186 lbs. Much better. Not sure if this matters, but we've got a big dually GMC to handle our tongue weight, thinking that the storage area is located near the front of the rig.
Also? What would be the best gauge for the cables we use to hook the 6 batteries up? 2 awg, 2/0?
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11-26-2018, 12:53 PM
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#8
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,979
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Remember that you've got a trailer frame that's built on two 10" frame rails, a "cantilevered" front section that carries all the weight of the trailer and you'll be placing the batteries "around the weld joints of the cantilever"... We've had several members with "heavy duty trailers" (GVW's over 15K) who have experienced cracks in the weld joints, damaged/cracked FILON and frame/sidewall separation along the cantilevered welds on their trailer.
Where you're planning to put those batteries will directly affect the weight placed on the cantilevered front. It isn't a matter of how much weight the truck can carry, it's how the trailer "base rails" transfers weight to the pinbox. The "weak link" in many fifth wheels is how the front "superstructure" converts horizontal to vertical loading.
__________________
John
2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
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11-26-2018, 01:33 PM
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#9
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Member
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Moscow, ID
Posts: 94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH
Remember that you've got a trailer frame that's built on two 10" frame rails, a "cantilevered" front section that carries all the weight of the trailer and you'll be placing the batteries "around the weld joints of the cantilever"... We've had several members with "heavy duty trailers" (GVW's over 15K) who have experienced cracks in the weld joints, damaged/cracked FILON and frame/sidewall separation along the cantilevered welds on their trailer.
Where you're planning to put those batteries will directly affect the weight placed on the cantilevered front. It isn't a matter of how much weight the truck can carry, it's how the trailer "base rails" transfers weight to the pinbox. The "weak link" in many fifth wheels is how the front "superstructure" converts horizontal to vertical loading.
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This is fantastic knowledge! We're checking in with Keystone now about permissible weight for the passthrough. Wonder if it would be possible to retrofit the front section?
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11-26-2018, 02:17 PM
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#10
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,979
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If you're considering a "complete rebuild" you may find that it's much cheaper to simply buy a trailer designed the way you're trying to "rebuild yours to be"... Looking at your posts, you've already got a generator installed in your trailer, you're adding a significant battery system, considering a solar system as well. That stuff ain't cheap, add the modifications to rebuild the front end and you're talking about the equivalent costs of just buying a trailer that's engineered and built to do what you want without risking whether the "shade tree work" is up to par. That isn't intended to be a slam against any "shade tree mechanic" or and "hobbyist welder" but if you're going to spend a substantial amount of money on lithium batteries, top of the line solar systems and rebuilding a trailer so it will safely support the additional weight, then you would want those modifications done by a competent, professional in that line of work, not "the neighbor with a welder in his pole barn"....
__________________
John
2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
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11-26-2018, 02:26 PM
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#11
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Member
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Moscow, ID
Posts: 94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH
If you're considering a "complete rebuild" you may find that it's much cheaper to simply buy a trailer designed the way you're trying to "rebuild yours to be"... Looking at your posts, you've already got a generator installed in your trailer, you're adding a significant battery system, considering a solar system as well. That stuff ain't cheap, add the modifications to rebuild the front end and you're talking about the equivalent costs of just buying a trailer that's engineered and built to do what you want without risking whether the "shade tree work" is up to par. That isn't intended to be a slam against any "shade tree mechanic" or and "hobbyist welder" but if you're going to spend a substantial amount of money on lithium batteries, top of the line solar systems and rebuilding a trailer so it will safely support the additional weight, then you would want those modifications done by a competent, professional in that line of work, not "the neighbor with a welder in his pole barn"....
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Gotcha on the complete rebuild vs. buying a rig that conforms to our standards. No offense taken whatsoever. If you knocked at our door, we've offer you a cup of cheer.
We bought the rig at a great price, sort of a quick sale. So, we have some "fixit funds" available. The welder we're taking the rig to is a professional yard that works on semi-truck and trailer suspension. Their pricing is less than what any RV maintenance place gave us. Eric
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11-26-2018, 03:40 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: radium hot springs bc
Posts: 2,007
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If I could just add some real life experience here. Back in 2012 we bought a lightly used 2011 Cougar 318SAB 5er 9400# dry GVW 11800#. The previous owner did an excellent job of installing 4 of the heaviest 6 volt golf cart batteries I had seen into the front storage area. Not too long after we got this smoking deal (it was in pristine condition) I noticed the Filon covering the kingpin area was cracked. I removed it and low and behold the frame was cracked where it transitions down to the main frame. Luckily DWs SIL was a certified welder. Sold that puppy at auction with the caveat "welded/repaired frame". Not saying your batteries are too heavy just a heads up . YMMV.
__________________
2018 Ram 3500 6.4 Harvest Edition
2018 Cougar 27RESWE
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11-26-2018, 05:25 PM
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#13
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Member
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Moscow, ID
Posts: 94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 66joej
If I could just add some real life experience here. Back in 2012 we bought a lightly used 2011 Cougar 318SAB 5er 9400# dry GVW 11800#. The previous owner did an excellent job of installing 4 of the heaviest 6 volt golf cart batteries I had seen into the front storage area. Not too long after we got this smoking deal (it was in pristine condition) I noticed the Filon covering the kingpin area was cracked. I removed it and low and behold the frame was cracked where it transitions down to the main frame. Luckily DWs SIL was a certified welder. Sold that puppy at auction with the caveat "welded/repaired frame". Not saying your batteries are too heavy just a heads up . YMMV.
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Super interesting! Thanks for the real life experience. Were you using a stationary or sliding hitch?
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11-26-2018, 06:29 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: radium hot springs bc
Posts: 2,007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRB Rig
Super interesting! Thanks for the real life experience. Were you using a stationary or sliding hitch?
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Had a Curt 16K slider in a F250 short box. Honestly never had to use the slide function. Mind you I was always mindful when backing.
__________________
2018 Ram 3500 6.4 Harvest Edition
2018 Cougar 27RESWE
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11-26-2018, 07:15 PM
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#15
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Member
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Moscow, ID
Posts: 94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 66joej
Had a Curt 16K slider in a F250 short box. Honestly never had to use the slide function. Mind you I was always mindful when backing.
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That’s a good hitch. We’ve got a beast of a dually pulling our rig with a pullrite 18k sliding hitch.
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12-02-2018, 09:05 AM
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#16
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Ogden
Posts: 92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 66joej
If I could just add some real life experience here. Back in 2012 we bought a lightly used 2011 Cougar 318SAB 5er 9400# dry GVW 11800#. The previous owner did an excellent job of installing 4 of the heaviest 6 volt golf cart batteries I had seen into the front storage area. Not too long after we got this smoking deal (it was in pristine condition) I noticed the Filon covering the kingpin area was cracked. I removed it and low and behold the frame was cracked where it transitions down to the main frame. Luckily DWs SIL was a certified welder. Sold that puppy at auction with the caveat "welded/repaired frame". Not saying your batteries are too heavy just a heads up . YMMV.
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Hope I don't have the same problem that you had. I have 4 trojan HD 6 volt batteries in my 2016 Cougar 227 RLSWE, right in the front, the Pin weight is 2500 Lbs. No problems so far. see the link below for pictures.
Mel
CLICK Here
__________________
2016 Keystone Cougar 277RLSWE 1/2 ton series Towed with a 2011 Ford F-250 Super Cab Super Duty 6.2L Gas, Reese 16,000 Lb Sliding Hitch. my Blog Site RV Bloggers https://rvbloggers.wordpress.com/
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12-02-2018, 09:20 AM
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#17
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Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Woodstock, GA
Posts: 14
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Be sure the battery location is well ventilated to outside. Vented batteries give off hydrogen gas while charging. Not goo being vented into bedroom
On a diesel submarine an officer must crawl thru the battery space making sure all Vent fans were running. That officer then put his name in log verifying operation. (Explosions had occurred in past!)
__________________
Regards, John
2015 Passport Ultralite 2890RL
2004 Dodge Ram AWD Hemi with trailer tow package
Residents of Marietta, GA
US Navy 69-74
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12-02-2018, 09:44 AM
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 196
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I went with 2 12v 155ah real deep cycle batteries from Batteries plus and put them in parallel. Meaning 310ah. I think they listed them as 12v golf cart batteries. They weigh about 100 pounds each and are not the fake marine deep cycle batteries. Same benefit as the 6v golf cart batteries, but a smaller footprint. Cost the same as 2 6v golf cart batteries.
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12-02-2018, 11:12 AM
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#19
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Park City, UT
Posts: 11
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Battery location
Quote:
Originally Posted by 68GS400
Be sure the battery location is well ventilated to outside. Vented batteries give off hydrogen gas while charging. Not goo being vented into bedroom
On a diesel submarine an officer must crawl thru the battery space making sure all Vent fans were running. That officer then put his name in log verifying operation. (Explosions had occurred in past!)
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Has anyone used the AGM batteries? These are sealed and don't have to be vented. The are double the cost of the flooded batteries, but supposedly last longer.
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12-02-2018, 11:27 AM
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#20
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,979
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allenclme
Has anyone used the AGM batteries? These are sealed and don't have to be vented. The are double the cost of the flooded batteries, but supposedly last longer.
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All of my "power sports" have AGM batteries, They are essential in the snowmobiles as they are installed "sideways" where a lead acid battery would leak. So they do have some "benefit". What I've found is they are OK, but very sensitive to discharge/recharge cycles. They cost double (or more) and if you let them discharge, pretty much plan to buy a new battery.
After replacing the battery ($100) in my RZR annually for 5 years I finally just gave up and bought a 12 volt "riding lawnmower battery" for $20. That was 4 years ago and it's still going strong..... I haven't been impressed with AGM batteries as replacements for lead acid batteries and haven't found, for me, them to be worth the investment..... YMMV
__________________
John
2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
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