Another Fuzion/Keystone nightmare

Bkeadle · 07-19-2018, 07:04 PM

We purchased our 2017 Fuzion 369 and we were so excited. Oh my, what cheap workmanship! A couple trips and screws are popping out all over the exterior, screws coming out of the wall in the garage holding the diamond plate to the wall (screws in plyboard and no backing), folding legs on beds in garage very cheap and weak......so on and so on. After a year of searching for a water leak, which we eventually found, and our coach was at the shop more than our house...… we started using it a bit. Now we find out we better not try dry camping if hot out... onan 5500.... nothing but trouble when hot out. we have new fuzion 369 toyhauler. I am convinced it is possessed and I would never purchase another Keystone product. Now, after speaking with the Cummins Tech, I learn that the placement of the generator and no really good "fresh" air, it overheats very easily. So much for trying to dry camp with our toyhauler. It just gets better every day.

would never recommend a keystone

**sourdough** · 07-19-2018, 07:53 PM

That's a very broad swath to paint when you have a Fuzion and Keystone makes a myriad of brands/models.....most by the way with happy owners. Many of the items you mention should have been found on your walk thru or a PDI. The units are built as they are; everyone knows you need to look at them. As I've said always; look, touch, investigate and be sure and make sure everything works before you buy. If not, it's really not the manufacturers fault. Not defending Keystone, but there are lots of things at play when someone decides to buy an RV, thinks they are getting this or that, doesn't take the time to study up or investigate, everything looks cool and new, genny sounds great etc. When you looked at the trailer and the genny, did you note how it was vented? Just saying a person has to be observant and aware of all the nuances of an RV and what is involved. These things cost some money, but, nothing like a quality S&B house. It IS a huge inconvenience, and can make folks unhappy, but, we all just have to be extremely aware while doing our due diligence. I'm sorry you're having problems, but Keystone is the best selling brand out there so they must be doing something right....including having the best floorplans in existence IMO. YMMV

wiredgeorge · 08-11-2018, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sourdough

That's a very broad swath to paint when you have a Fuzion and Keystone makes a myriad of brands/models.....most by the way with happy owners. Many of the items you mention should have been found on your walk thru or a PDI. The units are built as they are; everyone knows you need to look at them. As I've said always; look, touch, investigate and be sure and make sure everything works before you buy. If not, it's really not the manufacturers fault. Not defending Keystone, but there are lots of things at play when someone decides to buy an RV, thinks they are getting this or that, doesn't take the time to study up or investigate, everything looks cool and new, genny sounds great etc. When you looked at the trailer and the genny, did you note how it was vented? Just saying a person has to be observant and aware of all the nuances of an RV and what is involved. These things cost some money, but, nothing like a quality S&B house. It IS a huge inconvenience, and can make folks unhappy, but, we all just have to be extremely aware while doing our due diligence. I'm sorry you're having problems, but Keystone is the best selling brand out there so they must be doing something right....including having the best floorplans in existence IMO. YMMV

Not sure what to tell the unhappy owner except many of the parts used in a Keystone are made by vendors and used in all RVs regardless of make.

I am curious as to how an Onan generator could be made safe to operate in a box inside the trailer. I have never had an on-board generator and wonder if I could build a box in a pass through and vent it somehow and make it safe. Doesn't seem like I could. If memory serves (from pictures), the on-board generator sits in a box lined with foil insulation. I have a noisy Champion dual fuel (propane/gas) and if I recall it is 3800W running but that thing has labels on it to keep it 5 feet from anything on the planet except the ground when running.... did I say it was kind of noisy? Has anyone ever retrofitted a non-Onan generator to an RV?

Oh, and OP, sorry for your issues... next time buy a 2002 Cougar and learn the inner secrets of RV maintenance and repair right from the get-go.

Bkeadle · 07-22-2018, 06:02 AM

Such a helpful reply to my post! "Many of the items you mention should have been found on your walk thru or a PDI" Guess you didnt read my post... One year trying to find water leaks! How could we find that in a walk thru? Screws coming out of the walls,,,,again i ask, how would we find that in a brand new trailer? The generator failing, AFTER 11 hours! To be a little like you (A smart ***) HOW COULD I FIND THAT BY "Touching my trailer on the walk thru"?

Though i probably hurt your Keystone-loving-feelings, I was just sharing a little about my experience which has not been a good one,

You must wirk for keystone and i appologize for referencing your company. My complaint is because Craftsnanship has definitly gone down ... and that is my little opinion.

PARAPTOR · 07-22-2018, 06:56 AM

I feel these RV manufacturers have similar production issues (Quality). I feel these manufacturers rely on the dealers/customers (PDI) to catch many issues missed at the factory. That is why a intensive inspection is a must prior to signing and taking it off the lot. Basically we are dealing with a house in a constant Tornado and Earth Quake. Have not heard of many if any complaints about Onan over heating due to location in the rig. Hope you get all your issues resolved

42FOUNTAIN · 08-31-2018, 10:08 AM

Heat seems to be a major factor in generator issues. My first few trips running 1 AC from Va. to South Carolina went well . Was in May ,OSA at 80 degrees. Towing getting hung in traffic will trip breaker. Had to pull off enclosed cover on Onan last 2 trips only traveling 100 miles to keep breaker on . The Onan needs more outside air from a side source in stead of bottom to bottom recirculating the air. Working on running another vent to compartment. No trips with cover off but compartment gets "hot" .

MrEnto · 07-22-2018, 07:44 AM

I feel like these trailers are slapped together with absolutely no pride in craftsmanship. Take off any panel and you’ll find saw dust, hole saw discards and other stuff that should have been cleaned up during manufacturing. During my walk through, I got so disgusted at the service texh’s Hack fixes for issues I pointed out to him that I chose to leave and deal with it myself. After a year of working with the dealer on replacing a window that wouldn’t open, I sent an email to Keystone and they didn’t even reply. Shameful customer service in my experience. As for the comments about a thorough walk through, I think it’s unfair to assume the majority of people have the skills to do a decent inspection while taking delivery of a “house on wheels” in the few hours time you may be given. Not to mention a first time rv buyer. I think we probably all paid a hefty sum for some sort of Dealer Set Up.

**sourdough** · 07-22-2018, 08:30 AM

Bkeadle, I'm sorry if I offended you; it was not intentional. My reply was not helpful because you didn't ask for help, just observational as yours was.

Quite honestly, screws coming loose just happen in an RV. Unless I'm the only person that has ever experienced it, I would bet a good number of folks on this and any other RV forum have had the same issue (at least I've read lots of posts about it). It's not the end of the world, and happens to the best of them. Generator placement, no venting, "cheap and weak" folding legs on the beds etc. - those could have/should have been noted on the walk thru. You don't say what the water leak was so don't know but they happen as well.

Not trying to be a smarta$$ or belittle your efforts. I missed/forgot stuff on my walk thru and, it was "tedious" - every time something came up that I had overlooked I kicked "myself" in the butt because I was lax. I didn't blame Keystone/Jayco/Forest River et al because I KNOW what they build and what to expect - not much. It is unfortunate but that is the nature of the beast. And yes, it can be a daunting task to do a thorough walk thru, especially if you don't know what you are looking for, or even what you are looking at. Even with the PDI checklist you can miss stuff.

I don't work for Keystone and I don't actually have "Keystone-loving-feelings" per se; I do like my trailer even though I've had, apparently, as much or more trouble with it than yours. I'm sorry you've had issues and hope you get them all resolved to your satisfaction so that you can hopefully enjoy your trailer one of these days. Good luck.

ctbruce · 07-22-2018, 04:58 PM

I have a '16 Impact 312. Everything has worked on it from the gitgo. I think that there a lot more trailers like this than bad ones. I'm not trying to discredit anyone or downplay your troubles but the squeaky wheel gets the grease. No need to write about great experiences.

roadglide · 07-22-2018, 05:54 PM

I feel for but Thor industry owns most rv names on the market , l think there all close to having no quality control . My dealer is a box of rocks and had to fix adjust and tighte screws my self . I have 30 k or more miles on my 311 impact and I'm thankful It didn't come with the whistle and bell's of the bigger fusion. I have had my keystone in some wild areas and to make it better for me it has become my hobby .

twvette · 07-23-2018, 07:47 AM

I hear yeah, the list of issues and things just not done right on mine is so long too. Almost every trip I am fixing something and I am ordering stuff now for my next trip. Luckily nothing extremely major yet but for the price point just not right. Not my first rig and this one has been the biggest headache, but am very close to getting it all right I think.

AbHDToyHauler · 07-23-2018, 09:59 AM

I bought my 2013 Fuzion used. I am sure the previous owner went through and fixed whatever cropped up but I have no way of knowing. As for us, well yes we have had to fix a few things (some self inflicted) and yes there are loose screws occaisionally but our Onan Generator has worked great so far. we are very happy with the unit so far. However I do understand the frustration especially when you buy new and pay top dollar for something. Someone once said. "Once you understand that everytime you take your RV out on the road it goes through what can only be described as an Earthquake, you will appreciate why some things get loose !" . I had to agree with that assessment. I don't think my real house would fare much better if towed down the road. Just my thoughts. Sorry for all your troubles.

whcarr · 07-23-2018, 12:47 PM

We have 2017 371, the lack of quality is appalling. A year an a half in still finding poor quality issues, but after visiting with other campers I think they are all built as cheaply as possible. As for the walk thru it's hard to fix what you can't see.

Wiilldd1 · 07-23-2018, 07:13 PM

I understand what you are going through. Purchased a 2520 last month.
This is my first travel trailer and am new to this. Have taken it to Idaho, then Texas, and currently in Wyoming. Picked it up from the dealer and the ambient temp was over 100. The walk through person said they do not operate the hot water heater or heater because of the heat. The hot water heater has not worked from the start. figured it out in Idaho. My bad.
The bedroom door came out of the roof. all the screws pulled out. they were not bolted to any support, just the roof paneling.
The screws around the blinds are falling out. the sheet metal screws outside are also coming out. have to constantly tighten them.
Taking it back to the dealer in August so they can fix these problems.
The workmanship on these is pathetic. Do they expect us to just park them and not take them anywhere?
Of course someone will say you should have inspected it. I have a better idea, why not just put a little effort into building these with a little quality! Maybe that is too much to ask for.

**sourdough** · 07-23-2018, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiilldd1

I understand what you are going through. Purchased a 2520 last month.
This is my first travel trailer and am new to this. Have taken it to Idaho, then Texas, and currently in Wyoming. Picked it up from the dealer and the ambient temp was over 100. The walk through person said they do not operate the hot water heater or heater because of the heat. The hot water heater has not worked from the start. figured it out in Idaho. My bad.
The bedroom door came out of the roof. all the screws pulled out. they were not bolted to any support, just the roof paneling.
The screws around the blinds are falling out. the sheet metal screws outside are also coming out. have to constantly tighten them.
Taking it back to the dealer in August so they can fix these problems.
The workmanship on these is pathetic. Do they expect us to just park them and not take them anywhere?
Of course someone will say you should have inspected it. I have a better idea, why not just put a little effort into building these with a little quality! Maybe that is too much to ask for.

These things come with problems unless you are lucky. Screws coming loose...that trailer is riding in an earthquake every mile you drive it and the fasteners they use are to get if off the assembly line...known problem. Loose screws...they will.

As a first time RV owner I understand this is all crazy if you never did due diligence. My first trip with this trailer I lost the passenger fender in less than 42 miles....after it had been to the dealership to "fix". Another 50 miles and the other side was flying in the wind.....I stopped, removed it and put it inside the trailer. Upon arrival at my destination 5 hrs. away the skirting on one side had come loose and was flopping in the wind. The end of the world? No. At the time I was miffed but, I've had other trailers and there is always "something". And, to put it in perspective, in the realm of toys, my boats were so much more problematic and expensive.

The screws are going to keep coming loose. Your dealer will find a cheap, quick way to get you out. You need to search this forum on loose screws, missing screws and you will find a plethora of information on how to fix that....and YOU will need to do that to make it right. HWH, should have been checked by the dealer, then by you. I understand one or both might not have done it, but for sure the dealer should have. Not having hot water is an inconvenience, I spent decades camping without it. It is however, a big disappointment in a new trailer.

I, and others, have posted on why you don't get a perfect trailer. You can do a search on that. In the meantime realize your issues aren't the end of the world and minor. Most would fix them themselves simply because they don't want to leave their trailer at the dealer for weeks/months. Not a put down, not good news, but simply the way RV ownership goes. I wish you luck in getting everything that you feel is faulty fixed.

**chuckster57** · 07-23-2018, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiilldd1

I understand what you are going through. Purchased a 2520 last month.
This is my first travel trailer and am new to this. Have taken it to Idaho, then Texas, and currently in Wyoming. Picked it up from the dealer and the ambient temp was over 100. The walk through person said they do not operate the hot water heater or heater because of the heat. The hot water heater has not worked from the start. figured it out in Idaho. My bad.
The bedroom door came out of the roof. all the screws pulled out. they were not bolted to any support, just the roof paneling.
The screws around the blinds are falling out. the sheet metal screws outside are also coming out. have to constantly tighten them.
Taking it back to the dealer in August so they can fix these problems.
The workmanship on these is pathetic. Do they expect us to just park them and not take them anywhere?
Of course someone will say you should have inspected it. I have a better idea, why not just put a little effort into building these with a little quality! Maybe that is too much to ask for.

Right now, the RV industry can’t keep up with demand. That said, many issues/problems can be dealt with or fixed before the buyer ever sees it if a proper PDI is done. Trust me when I say from the $15,000.00 entry level to the $450,000.00 mid range ( yeah 1/2 million is only mid level) units come from the factory with issues. Some more than others and how the dealer addresses them is crucial. Is Keystone the worst? Not by a long shot. Are they the best? No but they could be better. Walkthroughs can be short or long and again if your dealer is de cent they will allow you the time to inspect everything. The unfortunate reality is there are many shady dealers and not enough QUALIFIED techs to go around. I hope you get all your issues taken care of and remember we call them RV’s for a reason:
RV- Repair vehicle.

John&Genny · 07-24-2018, 08:11 AM

The biggest problem is the RV industry itself and how they pay their workers. Most RV manufacturing companies pay by the “piece”. The more RV’s an employee puts out the line, they more they get paid. A practice many other manufacturers have abandoned because of the poor quality it produces. And because of this, most employees work themselves extremely hard just to make a decent wage, often to the point of exhaustion every day in plant floors that have no air conditioning. The turnover rate in many RV plants is 100%, which means basically no pride in workmanship for a particular line.

Combine this with the explosive growth in RV sales over the last few years, and you can see why we are getting RV’s that are in poor shape right off the floor. I’m not sure what it will take to change this, but if the RV companies start paying a decent hourly wage will we be willing to pay the inevitable cost increase?

Anyway, sorry you have had such poor luck on your RV, and hope you can get most of them resolved soon.

trueweb · 07-23-2018, 11:20 AM

Half of your issue was with the Onan generator. This has been a known problem on many brands of 5th wheels with this unit. You really need to have a fan pointed under the generator to move the hot exhaust air out, especially when: it's hot, the front-end is low, there is no breeze.

Wiilldd1 · 07-24-2018, 12:09 PM

Thanks for the replys everyone.

This helps me understand the quality issues.

If I ever buy a new one again, I will make sure to do the initial inspection and plan a long trip. The trip should point out the issues and will than take it back to the dealer to fix what was missed/faulted during the trip.

Glad to hear it was not a lemon, but an industry issue. I will make upgrades and repairs of best possible solutions.

This forum sure helps us Newbies!

DonnieBlitz · 07-27-2018, 01:18 PM

Well we stayed at the dealers lot 4 days to get things squared away. Dealer took good care of us. Should the pre- inspection been done right in the first place by thee dealers rep we wouldn't have had to stay. But no one is perfect and they made things right! If you got the 7 year service plan like we did your in good shape if not you better find everything out the first year.

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