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Old 02-04-2013, 01:19 PM   #1
Murf
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Rear Hitch on my 5th Sprinter

New here guys. I have a 2011 F150 Ecoboost and a 25ft Keystone Sprinter 5th wheel. I was looking to put a hitch on the back of the camper to pull an aluminum trailer and my ATV. WI law is less than 65ft and brakes on any trailer over 3,000lbs. My question is I have the I beams and with a crossmember at the very back that is in my way. It's 2, L brackets with a wavy metal connecting them. Might bit the bullet and bring it to a fab shop.

Anyway I was just wondering if anyone had any input. I'm a wood guy, metal is a distant second


Here are a couple pics of my rig

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Old 02-10-2013, 05:40 AM   #2
jol
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I bought a metal one that came from Etrailer.com that basically I had to drill 4 holes to install it is a Curt and fits upto I believe it was 78 inches across. Camper is a Sprinter but is at a storgage facility at this moment. We only use it to haul bikes on but do have a utility trailer and motorcycle that may be a combination
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Old 02-10-2013, 06:35 AM   #3
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I have a 26' Springdale fifth wheel. I had a hitch installed on the back to pull my bass boat. A local machine shop/metal fabricator built a receiver to attach front and back to the frame rails. The most unique part, I think was the 4" steel angle plate they welded to the back bumper to support the receiver. It spans the entire Springdale bumper along the bottom and along the vertical side closest to the trailer. Made of 1/8" steel, it significantly strengthened the back bumper as well as provided a place to support the lip of the receiver.

There are two 1" square tubes that span the I Beam frame and receiver is quite a bit longer than a "standard receiver". It is attached both to the square tubing and to the reinforced rear bumper. There are also "gussets" to stabiliize the receiver at every attachment point.

I'd think that if you're going to hang a couple of bikes or a small cargo rack, the Curt RV hitch would probably be OK. Towing another trailer, especially one with upwards of 1,000 lbs on the receiver, I'd opt for something locally fabricated and reinforced much better than just hanging off the I Beams.

Are you planning to install brake wiring for the trailer? If so, I'd urge you to tap in at the junction box under the fifth wheel pin, not at the axle.

Another item you'll find indespensible is a rear camera. Once you first hook up the added trailer, you'll find that you're towing COMPLETELY in the blind. You won't be able to see that trailer, (except for the very back corners) even in turns. I ordered a wired (not wireless) camera, mounted it just under the upper clearance lights, ran the wiring into the cabinet inside the RV, then down along the corner, out the floor and under the RV frame rail up to the pin box. I opted for the "RV Setup" wiring which has a connector added in the wiring so you can disconnect the camera in the same place as the fifth wheel electrical. Wiring for the truck is straightforward. There are rubber plugs in the floor of the cab, so don't drill any holes, just put a slit in the rubber plug and push the wiring through into the cab. (actually push it through from the cab to under the truck.

I wired mine so that I can velcro the monitor over the rear view mirror when in use. It seems like a logical place to have it anyway. When not towing, I remove the monitor and stow it in the glove compartment.

Here's a link to the camera system I bought. It's less than half the price of a similar model from CW. http://www.rearviewsafety.com/produc...5th-wheel.html

I find that I use the camera system even if not towing the boat. It's really comforting being able to see behind the trailer. With the wide angle camera, I can see from the top of the spare tire out to about 40' behind the trailer, so not only can I see the road, I can see most things attached to the trailer as well. When we have a cargo shelf back there, I can see what's on it and keep an eye out for anything that might start shifting around. I'd definitely want to keep an eye on bikes if there were on a rack back there....

Anyway, I know this is rather long, but to my way of thinking, there's more than just having a hitch back there, you also need to be able to see what's going on before someone is frantically waving at you from the next lane and pointing back toward where the trailer "used to be"
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Old 02-11-2013, 08:08 AM   #4
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Thanks for the info. I'm definately going with the fab shop. $300 is a fair price. As far as the camera I was going to use our Iphones. They have the ability to Facetime which is exactly the same as a camera. I don't need my phone while driving anyway. Down the road if I double tow more often I'll wire up a good camera.
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Old 02-12-2013, 07:12 PM   #5
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This is the one from etrailer, I found it by someone else telling me about it at etrailer.com and use there search and put in 13703. It's about what you are going to spend.
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Old 02-12-2013, 08:36 PM   #6
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The Curt hitch you identify on etrailer.com ( http://www.etrailer.com/p-13703.html ) spans the I-beam rails on the RV with an adjustable width of 22" to 72". The cost on etrailer is $321.40. Weight is 94 lbs and UPS Ground Shipping appears to be free.

My concern with this hitch is that it attaches to the I-beam rails in two places, each "pad" measures 4 7/8" x 7 1/2". In that 5x7 steel mounting pad are 6 1/2" carriage bolts. That means that 12 1/2" bolts spread over one point on each of the rails holds the entire hitch assembly. There is no attachment point further forward or centered at the receiver tube. As such, any twisting or movement along that contact point on the I-beam is the weakest link in the hitch assembly. It is rated at 350 lbs tongue weight and 3500 lbs total weight, but with a 6 foot bar spanning between two relatively small attachment points with no center support and about 18" of receiver tube/ball tube (or even longer fulcrum with a cargo platform), I'm concerned that there's not a lot of support to keep the hitch assembly from bending or twisting under load. That is, assuming the Lippert frame rails are up to that kind of load at those small points along the frame rails.

As for towing a second trailer behind a fifth wheel, I'd feel much more secure with a hitch platform attached to 4 places along the I-beam and also attached to the centerline of a "beefed up" rear bumper. That locally fabricated system costs about the same as the Curt hitch and offers a much more rigid receiver assembly under the back of an RV.

This is just my opinion, I'm not "against" Curt products, I tow with a Curt fifth wheel hitch, but I'm just not a believer in a bolt on receiver that spans 6 feet between two rails with a 2" square tube with no center support and expecting it to carry any significant weight roughly 18" behind the center point. The twisting forces on that span are tremendous.
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Old 02-14-2013, 04:59 PM   #7
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I understand your concern and point well taken.. We haul two 27 pound bikes back there now and have not had a problem. I know that if I plan on a trailer such as the motorcycle trailer I have and put the motorcycle on it then I would plan on "beefing" it up a bit, have a local automobile restoration shop down the street that is willing to make it "as strong as need be" whatever that means. Anyway hope all works out and that your plan gets done and get to use it. Heck isn't that what we want to do anyway is RV.
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Old 03-02-2013, 06:21 AM   #8
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So after having way too much time to think about this I decided to go with the Curt from Etrailer (arrived yesterday). Two things brought me to this decision. My buddy who's a fab metal guy says the place in town does decent work but they will screw you any chance they get. They will start out saying around $300-$350 and in the end they'll say they had some extra things they had to do and it'll wind up being $500-$600. I'm not into that kind of business practice.

The second reason is after a ton of research I decided the hitch will be Plenty for what I'm going to use it for. If anything on this thing gives it'll be the I-beam it's attached to (not going to happen). The steel must be 1/2 thick atleast. The hitch was dropped off yesterday........100lbs. It gets bolted into 6 places on each side. the length of the tube mounted across and the 11" it comes out the back seems like a long way but the hitch is so stout that it seems as if the back end of the trailer will rip off before that hitch fails.

The ONLY 2 things I plan on pulling behind the camper is an aluminum flat bottom boat (with trailer about 1000lbs, tongue weight of maybe 50lbs)) and a trailer with an atv on it (1600lbs with the atv over the axle around 100lbs hitch weight). So this hitch will be plenty and Monday I'm going to install it. I'll post some pics when it's all done.
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Old 03-02-2013, 08:13 AM   #9
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Murf, Sounds like a good plan. Be sure to read the warning at the top of the installation instructions about using the hitch to carry a platform.

It states:
WARNING: ALL NON-TRAILER LOADS APPLIED TO THIS PRODUCT MUST BE SUPPORTED BY AUXILIARY STABILIZING STRAPS.
** FAILURE TO PROPERLY SUPPORT NON-TRAILER LOADS WILL VOID PRODUCT WARRANTY**

Curt builds a good hitch, but that warning is the reason I decided to go with a custom hitch. The only way I could figure out how to add the stabilizing straps was to the back bumper and it just isn't strong enough to carry much weight without damage.

Good luck with the installation. We're waiting for those pictures
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Old 03-02-2013, 08:21 AM   #10
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Just read the instructions, didn't even see that. My plan was always to use it for trailers but I guess since it's there I spose I'll also put a bike rack on it, in that case I'll be strapping it somehow somewhere
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Old 03-06-2013, 05:59 AM   #11
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So here it is.

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Obviously I'm going to flip the ball around to be on top but it's the one off of my truck so until I NEED it on the camper I'm not going to flip it.

Couple things, you all might say "hey you cut a hole in your bumper, that makes the bumper a paper weight!" Yes exactly, I had two options. Cut the whole bumper off and re-attach it above the hitch and that'd be another half day job. OR I could just cut a hole. I chose the later. The reason.....I ONLY PUT MY SH*TTER hose in there

Another thing is I SWEAR they were missing smaller bolts to attach the tube to the plate (Curt Hitch). I couldn't fish those bolts through to save my life, so a trip to the hardware store for shorter bolts and badabing, all done. Oh yeah, also I had to move my jacks forward about 6 inches.

Overall it was a pretty big project, broke 2 drill bits, laid in the snow for a half day, but in the end it was worth it. This thing is so stout, there's no way it's coming off. The I-Beams were a lot thicker then I had thought.

Question, I have a junction box on the driver side with wires going to it (back end), and I also have wires going to the back (2 sets orange and white). Do any of you know where the light wires are? I didn't start wiring because my hands were frozen in the end!

Cheers
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Old 04-11-2013, 06:34 AM   #12
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All done and pulls perfectly!


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As far as the wires go. There was a sleeve of White, Red, Black, and Green. After testing all of them I spliced a new harness to make the trailer lights work properly.
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Old 04-11-2013, 12:50 PM   #13
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Hello. I'm from mi an we can be total of 75 ft. I am waiting for my new 2013 ecoboost f-150 crew cab with 2 wheel drive. I have a 2002 fifth wheel cougar that's a total of 29.5 ft long. I don't have a slider hitch an was wondering how is it for getting in an out of places. I also got the 6.5 box an 273 rear end so I can pull total of 11,300 lbs. I am going to add a better hitch to the back of mine this summer so I can pull my 21 ft boat behind me.

Oh make sure u have correct drivers liscense to pull the two trailers. In mi you need to have a recreational doubles endorsement or a cdl class A with doubles to pull a rig like urs.

Good luck.


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Old 04-11-2013, 04:36 PM   #14
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[QUOTE=Murf;72220]All done and pulls perfectly!


Looks good! What is your total length. I would think you have nothing to worry about with that hitch, they are very strong.
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Old 04-13-2013, 05:11 AM   #15
Murf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3P'sInACougar View Post
Hello. I'm from mi an we can be total of 75 ft. I am waiting for my new 2013 ecoboost f-150 crew cab with 2 wheel drive. I have a 2002 fifth wheel cougar that's a total of 29.5 ft long. I don't have a slider hitch an was wondering how is it for getting in an out of places. I also got the 6.5 box an 273 rear end so I can pull total of 11,300 lbs. I am going to add a better hitch to the back of mine this summer so I can pull my 21 ft boat behind me.

Oh make sure u have correct drivers liscense to pull the two trailers. In mi you need to have a recreational doubles endorsement or a cdl class A with doubles to pull a rig like urs.

Good luck.


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Cool part about WI is we have to stay under 65 feet and no extra licensing is needed. Also no permit anymore. They just dropped the need for permits.

This rig is almost 64ft on the button from prop to license plate! I am normally going to have my 4x8 tilt trailer back there, with my atv, so length will never be a problem.


If you have Max Tow (giant towing mirrors from Ford) you can pull 11,300 with the 6.5 foot box. If you have regular tow like mine with 3.73 gears its 9,800. Now this has been highly debated over on the F150 forum because the only difference between the two is a bigger hitch and tow mirrors. And people with 5th wheels don't need to worry about the rear hitch. We have to worry about payload more than anything. My Pin weight is 1020, which my truck has a 1724lb payload. It's on your door sticker. We run out of payload well before we run out of tow capacity!

Oh and with my 6.5 foot box I have never had any clearance issues with my back window. I have gone about 75 degrees and still had enough (going 90 may be a problem, but I don't plan on getting into that situation). Also I just have a regular hitch. I put the "No Drill" brackets and installed the rails myself. I've never had a situation where a slider would be needed. It would be nice on the occasion you couldn't get your rig straight before you unhook. This is because when you drop the tailgate at an angle your tailgate hits the camper. The fix if needed, take off the tailgate.

Here's a pic of my hitch

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And here's a link to our new "no permit" state
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/busines...docs/3vreq.pdf



Either way be safe and have fun
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Old 04-13-2013, 06:33 AM   #16
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3P'sInACougar,

We also have a 6.5' box on our supercab F150. We tow with a Curt 16,000 hitch. I'm able to get at least 65* possibly 75* before the front of the trailer is "uncomfortably" close to the back window. We debated a sliding hitch, decided to try one season with a conventional hitch and see if we needed the slider. So far, I've managed to maneuver in every campground we've visited with no problems. Some of the State Forest campgrounds have very narrow dirt roads and tight angles to get into the sites and we've never had a problem getting in with one or two times of pulling forward and backing in. As stated, the tail gate is an issue if it's down, but even with that "problem" I've never had a time I couldn't hitch/unhitch after backing into a spot with the tail gate up.

We tow a BassTracker TX175 behind the trailer and are right at 65'. The only thing I would urge you to do is to get a TV monitoring system to mount on the back of the RV so you can watch your boat/ATV trailer. The only time I can see mine is in a sharp turn, and then, only the back half of the boat. With the monitor, I can see the entire boat from the spare tire mounted on the RV bumper all the way back to the motor on the boat.
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Old 04-13-2013, 07:24 AM   #17
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Funny thing for the monitoring system. I went with a video baby monitor. Found one on Amazon for $66. Works like a charm AND it's IR for nightime AND I can tilt and pan the camera to see around. Little bugger works great!
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Old 04-13-2013, 08:11 AM   #18
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Baby monitor systems work, to an extent, but I wasn't able to find one that is waterproof such that I could use it in a rainstorm. If your system is waterproof, that's great, otherwise, when you need it most, will it be usable?
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Old 04-13-2013, 08:19 AM   #19
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No, I just mounted it inside, to the back window
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Old 04-14-2013, 04:56 AM   #20
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Timely continuation of this thread! Trailer is in the shop to have a mount / hoist installed to place the spare tire under the trailer, up near the landing gear. After that, it is on to another shop that specializes in custom hitch and truck accessories for install of the hitch.

No plans (at this point!) to tandem tow but I ran out of options for safe method to transport our road and mountain bikes! Will post pictures when complete.
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