Looking adding inverter; Need advice - Page 2

**flybouy** · 01-20-2020, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by avalanche

I have run a 2000 watt sine wave inverter. Mounted it on the wall in the first storage bay next to the battery compartment. Made up a male only short extension cord. So I kill the converter and make sure fridge and water heater on gas. Run the cord from the inverter to the ac outlet in the storage bay and back feed the system.
No AC, no coffee pot or microwave.

"Backfeeding" any electrical circuit is dangerous. Having a live male plug is a disaster waiting to happen, that's why it's against electrical codes. If the live male plug comes in contact with a person then a potential fatality exists.

moparmad · 01-24-2020, 04:59 PM

you could also pull the circuit breaker wire out for the outlets that feed the outlets you want and put in a subpanel and another transfer switch then run a new romex from the original circuit panel circuit breaker to the transfer switch and the inverter on the other side of the transfer switch and from there to the subpanel circuit panel circuit panel that feeds the outlets that you want. that way it will keep you from powering up the converter when using the inverter and still have all the outlets you want and when hook to shore power or gen it will pass through and power up the outlets with out using the inverter and the converter will be able to charge the batteries and still be able to use the outlets. that's just a cheaper way of doing it without an inverter that doesn't have a built in transfer switch. there's a lot of ways of setting up a system. the main thing I see people make mistakes on is battery bank size and battery cable size going to inverter. don't starve the inverter and it will work like a dream. been off line, my modem dropped out and had to order another through centurylink

Stircrazy · 01-27-2020, 05:47 AM

if you are looking at go power already another route is to get there extreme solar system, and 4 decent 6v deep cycle batteries. this is the way I went (old version only 160 watt panels instead of the 190's) but in September in Canada I can run the furnace all day, the coffee pot in the morning and evening, a bit of microwave time and let the kids watch a move in the evening and not run out of power.

Steve

gearhead · 01-27-2020, 10:44 AM

We went to the WOO Sprint Car finals at The Dirt Track at Charlotte in November. No hookups. I ran 2 Honda 2000's on a IPI long run tank with no issues. No A/C needed but sure used the furnace. Walking around the RV lot I saw a lot of HF Predator generators. I asked one owner if he was satisfied with the Predator. Yeah, just buy the warranty. He was on his 4th one. He claimed a store clerk told him that if he got near the end of the warranty period to run it dry and return it to the store claiming it "won't run". Let your conscience be your guide.

X-Jaywalker · 05-11-2020, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by avalanche

I have run a 2000 watt sine wave inverter. Mounted it on the wall in the first storage bay next to the battery compartment. Made up a male only short extension cord. So I kill the converter and make sure fridge and water heater on gas. Run the cord from the inverter to the ac outlet in the storage bay and back feed the system.
No AC, no coffee pot or microwave.

This is what I am trying to set up. Could you share, what type of batteries? Flooded, AGM, Lithium? This is probably a stupid question, How did you kill the converter? I dont have an outlet in my storage bay, so I guess I would have to run the cord up through the floor (or?). Also, what brand inverter did you get? Thx in advance.

**JRTJH** · 05-11-2020, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by X-Jaywalker

This is what I am trying to set up. Could you share, what type of batteries? Flooded, AGM, Lithium? This is probably a stupid question, How did you kill the converter? I dont have an outlet in my storage bay, so I guess I would have to run the cord up through the floor (or?). Also, what brand inverter did you get? Thx in advance.

Using a "male/male home fabricated cable" to backfeed the electrical system is a good way to electrocute some "unsuspecting person"...

Imagine the neighboring site child, walking by your open passthrough door, seeing a butterfly fly into the opening, walk over, unplug that plug to catch the butterfly and touch those "exposed, live male pins" on that cable.... Sure, that's a "far fetched example" but what about your brother in law, unplugging that cable to plug in his battery charger in the outlet while out camping and not knowing what you've done ???

There's a reason why it's illegal to plug a home generator into an outlet and "backfeed the utility system"... It's called electrocution....

While that kind of "work around" will provide power to the trailer system, the potential to kill some unsuspecting person makes the risk far too great to "just do it and not worry about what might happen".... JMHO, YMMV.....

X-Jaywalker · 05-11-2020, 08:38 AM

From all the posts I have read, I have come up with a conclusion. Everyone has different needs/wants/ideas on an offered system. Obviously the story of the guy with 1000lbs of batteries and roof full of solar is OVERKILL.

I admit, I do not have too much knowledge of electrical systems. So I am learning as I go. Our needs are simple, dry camping for 3-4 days, without running a generator. Our 2014 5er is bone stock, with a storage for (1) 12V battery and the stock converter. So, after figuring out we need only draw 90 ah per day for basics (no tv, ac, coffee pot, or microwave) what would you guys suggest? Solar panel(s), battery upgrade? Inverter?(if yes, do I need to bypass the stock converter? and how?)

X-Jaywalker · 05-11-2020, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Using a "male/male home fabricated cable" to backfeed the electrical system is a good way to electrocute some "unsuspecting person"...

Imagine the neighboring site child, walking by your open passthrough door, seeing a butterfly fly into the opening, walk over, unplug that plug to catch the butterfly and touch those "exposed, live male pins" on that cable.... Sure, that's a "far fetched example" but what about your brother in law, unplugging that cable to plug in his battery charger in the outlet while out camping and not knowing what you've done ???

There's a reason why it's illegal to plug a home generator into an outlet and "backfeed the utility system"... It's called electrocution....

While that kind of "work around" will provide power to the trailer system, the potential to kill some unsuspecting person makes the risk far too great to "just do it and not worry about what might happen".... JMHO, YMMV.....

Thank you. I read all the safety posts in this thread. And I get it. Maybe I should have been more clear. I am looking at upgrading my current battery/converter/charging system...to sustain us dry camping for 3-4 days. I liked his concept of the 2000W Inverter as apposed to draining the batteries. The custom male adapter was not in my plans. All safety precautions will be taken.

**JRTJH** · 05-11-2020, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by X-Jaywalker

Thank you. I read all the safety posts in this thread. And I get it. Maybe I should have been more clear. I am looking at upgrading my current battery/converter/charging system...to sustain us dry camping for 3-4 days. I liked his concept of the 2000W Inverter as apposed to draining the batteries. The custom male adapter was not in my plans. All safety precautions will be taken.

Larry,

When you ask questions and make comments like these: " How did you kill the converter? I dont have an outlet in my storage bay, so I guess I would have to run the cord up through the floor (or?)" it gives a general impression that you're not familiar with your RV electrical system and don't know the basic protection and wiring systems for your RV. I've seen way too many people who "don't know what they're doing" make mistakes in trying to follow someone else's ideas...

Making a "male/male cable" to backfeed the electrical system in an RV is an excellent way to hurt someone, possibly kill them and be charged with wrongful death or possibly murder..... That's why there are 4 or 5 posts on this thread saying, "DON'T DO THAT"....

X-Jaywalker · 05-11-2020, 10:36 AM

Thanks John....I am sure you have more knowledge and experience then I. That is why I am here, to hopefully learn from you folks. So what would YOU recommend?

**JRTJH** · 05-11-2020, 10:49 AM

If you're looking for a "simple solution" to watch TV and power a satellite system, I'd install a 500 watt or a 750 watt inverter in the battery compartment, run a 14 ga ROMEX cable from that inverter attached to the ceiling of the front passthrough, to the bulkhead of your trailer (between the passthrough and the main cabin). Install a dedicated 110 volt outlet in that location so you can either plug the TV into the "normal trailer outlet" or unplug from that and plug it into your "inverter outlet". All you need to do is open the battery compartment, turn on the inverter, plug the TV into the outlet and turn the TV on. There's no need to turn off the refrigerator, water heater, converter/charger or even interface with the trailer "shore power system".

When you're finished using the inverter power source, just turn it off and plug the TV into the "trailer system" or, if you want, you can leave the TV plugged into the inverter plug, even when you're connected to shore power since your converter/charger will continue to keep the battery bank charged, even with the small drain from your TV. Keep in mind that the TV AND the inverter will both become "another phantom drain" on the battery system when not connected to shore power, so if your battery "died in 3 days" before, it'll probably "die in 2 days" with the inverter/TV additional drain.

If you're going to "install a "code approved" connection to your RV shore power system, you'll need to either "power it through the trailer shore power plug (run the power cable from the inverter to the trailer shore power plug) or install a transfer switch. You can't "just plug in anywhere and backfeed the system. It will provide power, but it will also kill someone who doesn't know what you've done if they happen to unplug your "backfeed cable" and touch the plug ends.

**chuckster57** · 05-11-2020, 10:51 AM

If your trying to have 110VAC from your batteries when plugged in to shore power OR using inverter, all you need is an inverter with Pass through” switching. You can get a charger/converter that does both, and simply unplug the external converter. I have installed both systems and they come with wiring schematics and instructions.

**flybouy** · 05-11-2020, 12:06 PM

Larry from reading these posts I think you are going to be "way in over your head" to do this yourself. Not meaning to offend just an observation. Electricity, especially 120 volts is not for the inexperienced. Comments like "just running a cord" that kind of thinking is right up there with "hold my beer and watch this".

The real dangers is not only electrocuting someone but also running a cord that can get damaged by improper installation methods leading to a fire. The "back feeding" the system can lead to harm to humans but also end up with serious equipment damage. While you say no coffee maker, microwave, etc. what happens when your friend or relative walks in and decides to microwave some popcorn and seeing the switches on the wall decides to push the water heater electric button to "see what it does"?

Do yourself a favor and look into some "basic electrical" courses at a local college or school and get the basics down first.

X-Jaywalker · 05-11-2020, 01:10 PM

Thanks Marshall...no offense taken.

moparmad · 05-14-2020, 03:40 PM

I added another transfer switch to my system and put the converter on the first one so when I use the inverter it bypasses the converter and when I have shore or gen power the converter is on the power leg of 1st transfer switch output leg. that way its all automatic and don't have to worry about back feeding.. my original set up was and old TCI inverter. I have a different set up now, a much more robust one. I use agm batteries. best bang for the buck when it comes down to charge/discharge rate and temp resistant. i can send you pics of what my new system. but the diagram here is a basic real cheap and will work great. used it for years. set the first transfer switch for delay and second one instant. inverter doesn't need start up time. I still haven't figured out how to insert pics though sorry no diagram. just two transfer switches. install a 110 outlet to the original transfer switch on the campers transfer switch outlet ,plug converter to outlet, and run that outlet to the new transfer switch inlet dominate pole with inverter on second recessive pole and outlet of second transfer switch going to camper. that way it will only cost you one transfer switch and some wiring, a couple good agm 6 volts, inverter and good to go. use solar, gen or even your vehicle to charge if your in a pinch. good for 3-4 days. you can dry camp with 110 reliably quite cheap really, i kind of relate a lot of it to cars. how fast you want to go= more $, you want more ah and charge rate= more $... Ive seen a Ford pinto take out a Chevy corvette. Do your research and your money will go far. thats my opinion for what its worth.

**JRTJH** · 05-14-2020, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moparmad

I added another transfer switch to my system and put the converter on the first one so when I use the inverter it bypasses the converter and when I have shore or gen power the converter is on the power leg of 1st transfer switch output leg. that way its all automatic and don't have to worry about back feeding.. my original set up was and old TCI inverter. I have a different set up now, a much more robust one. I use agm batteries. best bang for the buck when it comes down to charge/discharge rate and temp resistant. i can send you pics of what my new system. but the diagram here is a basic real cheap and will work great. used it for years. set the first transfer switch for delay and second one instant. inverter doesn't need start up time. I still haven't figured out how to insert pics though sorry no diagram. just two transfer switches. install a 110 outlet to the original transfer switch on the campers transfer switch outlet ,plug converter to outlet, and run that outlet to the new transfer switch inlet dominate pole with inverter on second recessive pole and outlet of second transfer switch going to camper. that way it will only cost you one transfer switch and some wiring, a couple good agm 6 volts, inverter and good to go. use solar, gen or even your vehicle to charge if your in a pinch. good for 3-4 days. you can dry camp with 110 reliably quite cheap really, i kind of relate a lot of it to cars. how fast you want to go= more $, you want more ah and charge rate= more $... Ive seen a Ford pinto take out a Chevy corvette. Do your research and your money will go far. thats my opinion for what its worth.

If there ever was a "perfect example" of the old phrase: A picture is worth a thousand words... THIS IS IT !!!!

I consider myself fairly well versed in "things electrical" and I can unequivocally say, you lost me at the first mention of "run that outlet to the new transfer switch inlet dominate pole with inverter on second recessive pole....."

moparmad · 05-14-2020, 06:45 PM

nah. its easy. on a transfer switch theres two inputs. one is going to be the "default" if there is two powers coming in at one time. if two powers lets say generator running and then someone plugs into the house it will switch over to the house or if its on the house side and the generator runs it will stay on the house side of the relay. almost all transfer switches will have some kind of diagram or writing on the cover stating it along with where the delay switch is. if i knew how to put a picture on this thing i would but it ask for a http://. a computer wiz i am not. but what i was trying to say is house input on the first transfer switch "default" input side of switch. gen on secondary. and the wires coming out would go to a outlet box with a plug where you plug the converter into. from there the wires go to the second transfer switch and that would be the "default" dominate side. the inverter on the secondary "recessive" side. then outlet from the second transfer switch could go the the main panel of the camper.. this set up would have the inverter on it will power everything up and you can use everything but keep load sharing in mind. and the converter would not be on. when the gen or house current comes on it would automatically switch over to either one of those start charging batteries and the second transfer switch sees power and will switch over bypassing the inverter. they also call it normally open and normally closed side relays. its the best i can do with out a diagram unless someone can explain how i can put a picture up :-).. if your transfer switch is handy, pull the cover off it and look at the back side.

KRumm · 05-15-2020, 12:07 AM

Here is a video on how to make your inverter power your whole rig (Accept AC)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gm4NeZCQyvY

Remember to turn off your converter/charger! - Which is usually a breaker switch or unplug the converter/charger - Also you should not waste battery power on high electric usage items like fireplace, electric water heater, electric refrigerator or tank heaters

If you don't to not worry about the converter/charger feedback loop Tito has a video (With Pictures!) on how to add a auto on/off switch for the converter/charger...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqXngyKtZtc&t=1027s

https://www.rvwithtito.com/articles/...automatically/

Here is another switch option

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0O9Wzma4m9A

X-Jaywalker · 05-22-2020, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Larry,

When you ask questions and make comments like these: " How did you kill the converter? I dont have an outlet in my storage bay, so I guess I would have to run the cord up through the floor (or?)" it gives a general impression that you're not familiar with your RV electrical system and don't know the basic protection and wiring systems for your RV. I've seen way too many people who "don't know what they're doing" make mistakes in trying to follow someone else's ideas...

Making a "male/male cable" to backfeed the electrical system in an RV is an excellent way to hurt someone, possibly kill them and be charged with wrongful death or possibly murder..... That's why there are 4 or 5 posts on this thread saying, "DON'T DO THAT"....

John...Ok, just to be clear. I never used the tern "backfeed". I am NOT making a cable thats male/male. That was another person on this post who gave his example of what he installed. I was misunderstood, when I replied and said that what I was looking at doing. I meant as far as just a simple small inverter, a couple of batteries and solar charge.

WJQ · 08-25-2020, 11:40 AM

Larry:

I created a thread "Installing a Solar System in a 2018 Cougar Travel Trailer"
to cover both a solar system to charge my batteries and an inverter system to have modest levels of AC power without starting the generator for two minutes of microwave use. These are clearly two separate projects.

I am a retired mechanical engineer with enough electrical knowledge to have wired my son's home a few years back. I passed the inspection on the first try. However, the amount of information available on this website is amazing but it is a lot to digest. Routing the wires was my biggest challenge.

My solar system has been done for a while and it works well. I am partway through the inverter installation.

There have been lots of good advice given in the above posts. So, take your time and really identify your needs. Separate them between "manditory" and "nice to have." So, check out my thread and you can ask question on specifics after you digest it all.

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