3/4 Ton Payload Capacities??

[reubenray]

As we get ready for our third trip we have been thinking about future trips and possible upgrading. I am retired and my wife will be retiring in 5 years or less. So I want to start looking for a bigger fifth wheel and of course a bigger TV. I really do not want to go larger than a 3/4 ton and do not want a diesel. We will not be fulltiming, but may be gone for weeks if not a month at a time.

As a starting point in my research (which is half the fun) what amount of payload capacities can I be looking at? It will always just be the two of us. Also I am not locked into a particular brand, but I would like an extended cab if possible.

[Htfiremedic]

How big a fifth wheel do you want? That is a major factor.
Any particular reason for not wanting a diesel? I have owned both, I love the diesel for towing, as it makes life easier.

[reubenray]

I would like to keep it around 35' with double slides in the L/R-Kitchen area.

Years ago I was issued a company truck that was a diesel. I hated every thing about it. If I understand correctly don't the gas models have more payload capacities than the diesel due to the extra weight of the diesel engines.

[davidjsimons]

On a 2012 Ram 2500, there is about a fifty pound difference in payload. I believe I would "sacrifice" that fifty pounds for the pulling performance of the diesel, regardless of the brand.


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[Htfiremedic]

Agreed with that. Newer diesels are far more advanced than the older ones. My 2003 is much better than my 1985.
I would try various rigs in both formats prior to deciding which is best.
I have driven Ford, Chevy and Dodge over the last several years. I have also had the opportunity to watch an E450 gas motor die after 45,000 miles of use. The warranty was gone due to a recital app and it got ugly.
Some of our diesel motors have over 350k miles. They still plug along!
Research the setups and that will go a long way.

[reubenray]

Most of my trips will be in the SE corner of the country and mostly flat areas. We may venture into the Smoky Mountains areas some.

[davidjsimons]

I have to second the durability of the diesel in towing applications. I have 655,000 miles on my 1990 Dodge and would not hesitate to pull my TT across the country. Hills or no hills, you are not going to get that kind of mileage out of a gas engine when towing with any kind of regularity.


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[davidjsimons]

Ultimately, get what you are happy with, that will make more difference than any other factor.


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[Ken / Claudia]

I have acouple of points regarding your questions.
1 ton and 3/4 ton trucks are diffrent only in some options but, mostly the difference is 8 ply tires vs 10 ply and the rear springs. If you buy a 3/4 and need more truck making it a 1 ton is easy. With 3/4 you may want air bags but, 1 ton you may not etc...
I would not get a gasser for pulling a heavy load. BUT, I will say that I drove gassers at work pulling 4500 lb and 8000lb boats, sometimes in a big hurry with lights and sirens on. Last truck was a crew cab F250 2008 it had the V-10 engine. It did not lack power as other gassers I had. It got 6 miles per gal, 8 to 9 when not pullling. Better that the old 460 ford that got 5. My F350 gets 10 to 12 with truck camper and boat, 15 to 17 not pulling.
Several years ago I asked a ford dealer about sales of the gas F250-350s for Rvers and he said they sell about 1 per 100 diesels. I have no proof of what he said is true or not.

[flybouy]

If. You want to see the difference in durability of gas vs diesel I recommend looking at used class c and A's. The vast majority of gassers with 50K on the odometer will list "motor rebuilt or new motor". The diesel's will have several hundred thousand miles before you will see that.

[Outbackmel]

I have a 2008, 2500 Dodge, 6.7 turbo diesel. (Quad Cab, short bed). Added the "Roll Lock" slider cover which when not needed for towing, provides excellent protection and security for "stuff", like golf clubs and RV spare. I took my spare off and traded the weight for a 2 bicycle carrier, with wheel support baskets. Third bike I secure to the rear ladder with a single bike carrier.

I am stating this from real experience, not a pipe dream. Over the last 40 years, I was responsible for selling repos and off lease vehicles for 3 major corporations that are in the top 5 in the US for vehicle financing. I had teams of sales experts and literally sold many thousands personally on the auction blocks of America.

Diesel, kills gas in 95% of cases. The only time it does not is an abused vehicle. "Abused" can represent hard to detect flood vehicles. That may be important if you decide to sell. Look on line and try to "buy" a late model low mileage diesel 2500 series or 3500. Brand really is preference. You better know the vehicle history. Plenty of "little ole lady driver" stories out there.

Plenty of towing info out here on "gas" (6-7) vs (10-12) diesel. Do the math, about the same.

Get out Consumer Reports and similar publications; review model past recall notices and ensure vehicle safety was repaired and not compromised and on and on. Do title tracking since new. Look for where it may have been AND WHEN, like LA before Katrina, now eastern New York. CARFAX is a good start, BUT, it is not infallable. There is plenty of "crap" for sale out there. It's your job to sort through it unless you step up and buy new with a factory backed warranty. Good Luck!
That's my opinion.

[reubenray]

It appears that this thread has turned into a diesel vs gas thread.

I am trying to get some rough payload estimates for 3/4 ton trucks not what type of engine to get. This will give me an idea of what particular fifth wheels will work whether the truck has a diesel or gas engine. I have gone to the big three websites and looked at their capacities, but I do not trust those number.

I understand that everyone's truck has a sticker stating their payload cap and what will need to be deducted from this. This to me is the best weigh to see what particular truck can pack how much.

[davidjsimons]

I believe my original point was that there was only about a 50 lbs difference in payload in favor of the gas, but there is about a 1200 lbs difference in towing capacity in favor of the diesel. With these differences in mind, coupled with the service durability of the diesel, I would seriously give it a thought. I'm sure you know what best fits your needs and will choose wisely.


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[Paddler]

These are not actual numbers just a general guide. 3/4 ton trucks will have payload in the range of 2300 - 3000 lbs. Depending on body style, regular cab/crew cab... One Ton SRW would be in the range of 2600-3500 lbs and One Ton DRW would be in the range of 3500 - 5000 lbs.

From my experience, my Monty's, 2180 lbs empty pin weight, 2650 loaded was way to much for my 2007 2500 GMC Sierra Crew Cab DMax. Its payload, from the driver's side door was 2600 lbs.

[reubenray]

Below is the caps for the GMC 2500HD trucks. This shows a max payload of 3506 for the gas engine. I checked my neighbors a while back and his was only 2??? something. This is why I don't want to go by the manufacturers numbers.

http://www.gmc.com/sierra-2500hd-pickup-truck/features-specs/capabilities.config%3Dextended_cab_standard_box.ht ml

[reubenray]

These are not actual numbers just a general guide. 3/4 ton trucks will have payload in the range of 2300 - 3000 lbs. Depending on body style, regular cab/crew cab... One Ton SRW would be in the range of 2600-3500 lbs and One Ton DRW would be in the range of 3500 - 5000 lbs.

From my experience, my Monty's, 2180 lbs empty pin weight, 2650 loaded was way to much for my 2007 2500 GMC Sierra Crew Cab DMax. Its payload, from the driver's side door was 2600 lbs.

Thanks - this is the info that I am looking for. I figured I would most likely look in the dry weight range of 10000 lbs.

[Festus2]

It appears that this thread has turned into a diesel vs gas thread.

I am trying to get some rough payload estimates for 3/4 ton trucks not what type of engine to get.

Thanks for reminding us about what you are looking for: no diesel, not brand specific, extended cab and preferably a 3/4 T. That leaves us with a gas tow vehicle - either Ford, GMC or Dodge and either a 3/4T or 1T and some information on payloads of vehicles matching his criteria to help him sort through his options.

[davidjsimons]

No larger than a 3/4 I believe he said.


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[Festus2]

David -
You heard right. He did say no larger than 3/4T. I stand corrected - again. :o

Obviously, you can see that I'm having a bad day. :eek:

[Jim W]

As we get ready for our third trip we have been thinking about future trips and possible upgrading. I am retired and my wife will be retiring in 5 years or less. So I want to start looking for a bigger fifth wheel and of course a bigger TV. I really do not want to go larger than a 3/4 ton and do not want a diesel. We will not be fulltiming, but may be gone for weeks if not a month at a time.

As a starting point in my research (which is half the fun) what amount of payload capacities can I be looking at? It will always just be the two of us. Also I am not locked into a particular brand, but I would like an extended cab if possible.

I am not going to try and talk you into a diesel engine vehicle, but I will offer some reading material for you to review.

One is Trailer Life Towing Guide, this you can find on the internet and list all of the towing weights for most vehicles on the market from vans to jeeps and trucks. This is one area to start with; the other is the Dodge Body Builders Guide this too is on the internet for your review.

I have attached both links for your use.

http://dcd96xmek71bc.cloudfront.net/trailerlife.com/2012_towing_guide_lo_res.pdf

http://www.turbodieselregister.com/magazines/buyersguide.phtml

Now one item to remember when filling your gas engine truck in the gas island with your 30 to 35ft 5er attached is: How Am I GOING TOGET THIS OUT OF HERE WITHOUT UN-HOOKING?

BEEN THERE DONE IT.

I now drive a diesel because I did not want to divorce my wife over me language with the IDIOTS who pull up behind you and box you in at the pumps.

Jim W.

[reubenray]

The gas pumps is an issue I have not had to deal with but one time. It worked great that time. So far my trips have been close enough without having to fill up with the fiver. To prevent this I have been packing a few 5 gallons jugs of gas and add them to my tank at rest stops.

[Festus2]

Jim W -
Sometimes, finding a fuel stop with "isolated" diesel pumps is hard to find and when you have to stop to refuel, it is necessary to maneuver your way to a diesel pump at a regular service station. There may not be a convenient truck/diesel fuel stop that is close by so you are left with no choice other than the usual, crowded service station. In this case it doesn't really matter if you have a diesel or gas engine since getting close to a pump is really tough.

In many cases at least in our area in BC, diesel pumps are not clearly identified or easily seen unless you are close to them. Some diesel brands have green as their pump color, some are black, while others are yellow. Finding a diesel pump and getting close enough to fuel up is a real challenge - moreso than a regular gas pump.

In these types of service stations, getting into and out of them with an RV is a real challenge no matter what your TV is - gas or diesel.

[rnkburg]

I have 110 gallon transfer in the dodge and 75 in the GMC of the station is hard to get too or not in site I have reserve. Works well and no worries about getting in and out.

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[smiller]

I tow a 38' fiver behind a longbed pickup. I do not do 'gas stations'... I either find a station with truck or RV pumps or keep driving.

[reubenray]

Having a larger gas tank is a must for me. The Tundra only has a 26 gallon tank. When I pack a few cans with me this will get me as far as I want to drive a day anyway. This breaks down to about 250+ miles and 5 to 6 hours of driving.

Also looking at the Dodge Ram truck caps. The gas engine has a max payload cap of 2923 where the diesel model is 2247. That is a difference of 678 pounds - is this correct?

[davidjsimons]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/28/9u7e8evu.jpg


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[Ruffus]

Payload capacities are computer generated. As far as fuel or gas, all I can say is "Transferflow" Chico Calif.
:thewave:

[LittleJoe]

You might also want to read up on new towing reg SAE J-2807.

It is supposed to take effect in 2013 and will introduce a lot of changes to various manufactures published tow and payload ratings.

[mhs4771]

OK, we had almost the exact 5er you're talking about, a Montana 2955RL, two slides (Living/Dining and Bedroom) was 34 feet. Dry weight just over 10K, but loaded for long term travel we were close to 14K. Now the brochure/dry pin weight was just under 2K, but our real world pin turned into 2900 Lbs. Could work for a 3/4 ton if you didn't put anything else in the bed and almost no passengers. Yes you will see many, many 3/4 tons pulling much bigger units, but probably most are over at least one if not more of the TVs ratings.

[reubenray]

I figured I would use a base weight of 550 pounds of people, gas, hitch, etc. to subtract from the truck posted payload. Below is the breakdown.

Wife -142 (included in payload)
Me- 185
35 gallons of gas - 210
Hitch - 100
Etc. - 55

[Jim W]

Jim W -
Sometimes, finding a fuel stop with "isolated" diesel pumps is hard to find and when you have to stop to refuel, it is necessary to maneuver your way to a diesel pump at a regular service station. There may not be a convenient truck/diesel fuel stop that is close by so you are left with no choice other than the usual, crowded service station. In this case it doesn't really matter if you have a diesel or gas engine since getting close to a pump is really tough.

In many cases at least in our area in BC, diesel pumps are not clearly identified or easily seen unless you are close to them. Some diesel brands have green as their pump color, some are black, while others are yellow. Finding a diesel pump and getting close enough to fuel up is a real challenge - moreso than a regular gas pump.

In these types of service stations, getting into and out of them with an RV is a real challenge no matter what your TV is - gas or diesel.

Festus2,
I use the Next Exit and The RVER'S Friend to find my diesel fuel stops. I also mainly fill up at the major truck plaza in the Semi-Truck islands. The RAM fuel tank filler neck will accept the larger truck filler nozzle on the fuel hose. The only problem is you must what the filling process sometimes the nozzle will not shut off fast enough, so I shut it off as the tank is getting close to full. You must also go in first and pre-pay with a charge card before fueling. I also will fill-up when the tank is at the ¼ tank mark on the fuel gauge. Since I know that there is approximately 8 gallons left in the tank and there is roughly 100 miles to go before I am out of fuel.
Jim W.

[Jim W]

I figured I would use a base weight of 600 pounds of people, gas, hitch, etc. to subtract from the truck posted payload. Below is the breakdown.

Wife -142 (included in payload)
Me- 185
35 gallons of gas - 210
Hitch - 100
Etc. - 105

This is my opinion and my opinion only.
First my back ground; I am a retired structural and hydraulic engineer from a major large equipment manufacture. So with that grain of salt I do not figure payload capacity when deciding on what trailer I can tow. I use the GCVW, GAWR Front, GAWR Rear and max towing weight only for my towing needs, to me payload is for cargo that is in the bed when not towing. In using the Ram Body Builders Guide for my vehicle which lists the GCVW as 20,000lbs, GAWR Front as 5,200LBS, GAWR Rear as 6,010 and the trailer weight as 12,450LBS this is what I maintain to tow with and will not exceed these limits.
I scaled my 318SAB with my 2008 Ram Mega CAB attached on a “Cat Certified Scale” the Front axle weight was 4,940 LBS, the Rear axle was 5,160 LBS, Trailer weight was 8,140 LBS and the GCVW was 18,240 LBS. This was with my wife and me, a full load of fuel (34gallons), two weeks of food and clothing ready for one of our trips. As you can see I am will within the safe limits per Ram towing guide.

Jim W.

[davidjsimons]

Agreed


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[therink]

On 3/4 ton versus 1 ton payload ratings: my 35' fiver weighs 12k loaded with loaded pin rate at around 2,400 lbs. Hitched to my previous 2008 3/4 ton Silverado with family and hitch,I exceeded the posted gvwr of the truck by 200lbs and was at the gcwr (18k lbs). I was not comfortable with this as my family's safety comes first. I upgraded to my current 1 ton srw silverado and am now well within the trucks payload ratings. This truck handles much better when towing, and I feel good that I am not pushing the limits.
Note that I have a gasser and am completely satisfied with it for the 2000 or so miles/yr I tow my fiver. The 2011+ gm hd's have 36 gallon fuel tanks.
The cost difference between 3/4 and 1 ton srw is around $800, the benefits of the 1 ton in my case are priceless.
Steve

[reubenray]

At that cost difference I would probably look at a 1 ton also. Whenever this takes place I hope to find a good/low mileage/well maintained used one being it will be used mainly for towing.

[Bigsky3625]

We had a 3/4 gasser. Upgraded to a 3500 Silverado 6.6l diesel. Get 20mpg on the road and 11 to 13 towing our 5er.

I will never own a gas truck again. The torque on the diesel along with the exhaust brake is incredible. Down mountain passes and never hit the brakes.

You need to kelp safety in mind. You may get that 10k trailer moving, but can you stop in time? Not to mention the wear and tear on a gassers tranny.

Do yourself a huge favor and go diesel in a 1 ton. You won't be sorry.

[reubenray]

Do all 3/4 ton trucks have the tow package included already?

[tomsws6]

Do all 3/4 ton trucks have the tow package included already?

I believe all 3/4 and 1 ton trucks are all the same and have the same options. The main difference would be the motor/trans.... Everything else should be the same and available on either gas or diesel.

[Jim W]

Do all 3/4 ton trucks have the tow package included already?

If you buy the HD version of the truck and not a used fleet vehicle, then the towing package would be an option or standard depending on the manufacture.
My 08 2500HD Ram truck with the 6.7L Cummins is identical to a single wheel 3500HD with the Cummins engine in it except for one helper spring in the leaf spring pack and the Badges that say 3500HD. The truck has the same cooling and transmission with the towing package as standard on the HD’s. With a carrying capacity of a GCVW of 21,000 lbs (3500HD) versus a carrying capacity of GCVW 20,000 lbs (2500HD) and with more expensive license plate cost in IL each year. Thats why I went with a 3/4 ton vehicle for my needs.
Jim W.

[reubenray]

The main reason I asked is while searching through Autotrader.com it is not specified on the trucks that they have the towing package or not.

[fla-gypsy]

As we get ready for our third trip we have been thinking about future trips and possible upgrading. I am retired and my wife will be retiring in 5 years or less. So I want to start looking for a bigger fifth wheel and of course a bigger TV. I really do not want to go larger than a 3/4 ton and do not want a diesel. We will not be fulltiming, but may be gone for weeks if not a month at a time.

As a starting point in my research (which is half the fun) what amount of payload capacities can I be looking at? It will always just be the two of us. Also I am not locked into a particular brand, but I would like an extended cab if possible.

Since diesel is not a requirement there are models available with nice payload capacities. My F-250 Crew Cab with a 6.8L V-10 has a 2890 lb payload capacity.

[Ken / Claudia]

I do not want to sound rude or against a truck or fuel type but, because of my background I found that asking the right question will get me to the type of information I need.
Reubenray, maybe start another thead asking what tow vehicles folks have to pull 34ft 5ers and if they are happy. I know what I would use but, you ruled out that type and size.
I have found that truck GVW ratings are below that they will carry/pull for safety and RV GVW postings are under what you will actually carry/pull. They are good starting points but, you need to weight them as you load them for your use. My last Artic Fox camper posted 3475 dry weight, it was 4450 at the scales loaded for weekend use.
Good Luck with what ever you get. Ken

[dave-g]

I have a 2011- f250 6.2 gas- I pull a 325srx toy hauler with it. It is about 11,000 fully loaded.

I have ZERO problems with hills or power. The new built in brake controller is fantastic. When in tow haul mode it does a great job on down hills controlling speed by automatically down gearing the trans.

I believe the new 6.2 makes a great motor for towing- I could not be happier. Yes you will get better mileage with a diesel, and you will have more power- but the gas will save you 6k or so when you buy.

I hear the diesel will last 300,000+ miles- maybe they will but the rest of the truck is made the same-for me, at 15,000 miles a year- I do not want to own a 20 year old truck.

For me the gas was the right choice-( there is no wrong choice) so get the truck and go camping!

[SteveC7010]

I have a 2011- f250 6.2 gas- I pull a 325srx toy hauler with it. It is about 11,000 fully loaded.

I have ZERO problems with hills or power. The new built in brake controller is fantastic. When in tow haul mode it does a great job on down hills controlling speed by automatically down gearing the trans.

Dave,

I am very interested to know how your SRW deals with the pin weight of the 325SRX. I just stepped up to a '12 6.7 F-250 and am contemplating adding air bags just to keep the rear end of the truck from sagging too much.

Your insights and experience are greatly appreciated.

[LittleJoe]

Just an example:
My 325SRX loaded is 2400lb on pin and 10,000lbs on axles (scaled).
My 04 DRW truck published (i think dry?) weight 7585lbs + pin+fuel and aux fuel/toolbox tank+DW and DH+ hitch + incidental crap= 11960LBS.

Total rolling wieght 21960LB. I am over published GCVWR by 960LB but Under truck GVWR by 240LB.I am under Front axle GAWR by +/- 300 and under rear GAWR by +/- 2200LB . Truck is comfortable with this weight and a pleasure to drive. With this setup I would be over GAWR on rear for 3/4 tons and over or right at GAWR for newest SRW 3500's. I personally would never feel comfortable pushing the Max rear GAWR on a SRW. Blowing a rear tire in a corner at interstate speeds does not conjour up pretty pictures.

The only way I would consider running over or right at the axle GAWR is with 19.5" tires on a SRW. Tires would be safe but you are still open for DOT crack down if found over Max Axle weight.

I am a little surprised figuring all this out .......adding my aux fuel tank took me from 3500SRW territory to mandatory DRW to be safe/legal at least in my mind.

[dave-g]

Dave,

I am very interested to know how your SRW deals with the pin weight of the 325SRX. I just stepped up to a '12 6.7 F-250 and am contemplating adding air bags just to keep the rear end of the truck from sagging too much.

Your insights and experience are greatly appreciated.

when hitched the back drops abiut 3 in. looks fine but i do notice it at night. Ihe head lights seem off. but the ride is great and very controled

I'll hve to put it on a scsle come spring