Massive delamination in 2010 Cougar

[Radioguy]

I'm the second owner of a 2010 Cougar 24RKS. So far, it has been really great...our first venture into RV'ing. However, I came out the other morning to find an incredible delamination going on on the unit's front panel (as it bends to the roof) and the rear panel, as it bends to the roof. I can see absolutely no sign of compromised caulking or sealing. I am sick about it. Naturally, it is out of warranty and I'm currently being batted between dealer and manufacturer. I most certainly am out of luck here. But, I cannot imagine a manufacturer fielding a product that can fail so miserably in two years with normal use...perhaps RV's are in a class by themselves...what do I know, I'm new to this.

[rjsurfer]

Sorry to hear about the problem.

Any chance you can post some pictures? Sometimes the folks here can get you going in the right direction as far as repairing the issues.

Ron W.

[therink]

Yes, please post some photos so we can get a better idea of the damage.
Steve

[Radioguy]

I do hope this shows....I'll send a picture of the back of the unit if this is successful.

[Radioguy]

This is the backside delamination.

[therink]

That looks like a classic case of delamination to me. I have read that some of these cases are not caused by leaks but by high heat from sun. Most are caused from water intrusion. Have you closely examined all seams, penetrations, transition points, etc. All it takes is a pin hole to let water in. Doesn't look good though.
Steve

[AlCorr]

I'm sorry to hear about the delamination problem. I've never seen that before. The manufacturer won't help you with this problem. How old is the unit?

[rjsurfer]

To come out one day and find that degree of delamination on a camper is really hard to believe, unless I misunderstood you're post and I apologize.

A case of delam that severe would take weeks if not months to progress to that point unless as others have said it was a case of "extreme" heat as well as some combination of water intrusion.

Keystone has been pretty good in warranting cases of poor engineering or quality even if the unit is out of warranty I would certainly start the process with getting the unit to a dealer and send those pictures directly to Keystone also.

Good luck....

Ron W.

[Radioguy]

Thanks for your thoughts on this. Couple of things...the unit is a 2010 and I was the second owner. Honestly, I can't find anything that would look like failed caulking, sealing, etc. I inspect this unit quite frequently...since I enjoy it as much as I do. I am able to look down on the roof from the second floor and I keep a close watch on it. Regarding the issue of high heat...I bought a brand new cover for the trailer from my cougar dealer two weeks ago....because I did not want it to get sunfaded, etc. It was the first time I had ever walked on the roof. It went well and I was able to deploy the cover and it was on for a week of 85 degree weather...and a couple of rainy days, too. So, when I went to ready the unit for my trip and removed the cover...I was astonished....at the delam, front and back. Is it possible (I guess anything is possible) that the unit got too hot under the RV cover? Again, it was only 85 degrees at the max on any given day. So, it went from visibly perfect one week, and creamed the next. Oh, one other thing....I have gotten in touch with Keystone and they have asked me for the VIN number.

[therink]

It is possible that extremely heat under the cover could have caused the glue between the filon and luan to breakdown. What color is your cover? If it is darker than white, odds are it was like an oven under the cover. I have read various posts on rv forums about this exact thing happening when using covers. Google it. Sorry that you have to deal with this on such a newer unit. It would not hurt to contact Keystone. You may want to have a professional leak test performed to verify there are no leaks, before you call Keystone. Hopefully someone who has had a similar problem will chime in.

[rjsurfer]

Got to be the combo of heat and cover, I kook at a bunch of RV forums and I can't really remember viewing a thread where that happened,

Cover or no cover still should not have occurred, a call to Keystone is on order.

Again I wish you the best if it were my camper I'd be beside myself at this point in time.

Ron W.

[Radioguy]

Thanks for all your advice. BTW, the new RV cover is white on the sides and gray on top.
To no surprise, I got the kiss off from Keystone today. Quite an introduction to RV'ing. It smarts...having a 2010 unit....and here we are in 2012 having to do a repair of 2 to 4 thousand dollars to replace front and back panels. In retrospect, I think it was heating...and not water intrusion that caused the delam.
I'm still shaking my head on this one. Who knew that trying to save your RV from sun deterioration could lead to its destruction....from sun! What a laugh.

[ftwildernessguy]

I use a cover but only during the winter for this reason. The cover goes on in November, comes off in March or April. A significant number of the delamination problems have come from the deep south or south west, so I am inclined to think high temps have a lot to do with it.

[Radioguy]

I think you are right. Going to take some time to decide what to do. I am not going to spend the 3-4K to repair it and then keep it. I just don't have confidence in the product. Thanks again for all the help, guys.

[Festus2]

Radioguy -
I can certainly sympathize with you and understand your frustration about the problem with both your front and rear caps.
After looking at the photos and reading about your recently-bought and applied cover, I would like to make the following comments:
1) Most fiberglass delamination results in bubbles (large or small), and a smooth, wavy-like appearance. In your case, the delamination looks like it has fairly sharp, angular ridges. It does look a bit unusual in that sense.
2) Delamination is usually caused by either penetration of water/moisture between the fiberglass and the substrate OR it may also be caused by a faulty lay up of the filon. The glue may have been improperly applied or the glue was a "bad batch" or there may have been other conditions during the layup of the filon that were not what they should have been.
3) There should have been luan or some other similar substrate used - not cardboard. If something other than luan was used, it would be prone to delamination.

If you did end up with an already defective cap that Keystone obtained from the supplier (if that is where Keystone got them from), then that would reduce the likelihood of some kind of water/moisture getting into it from improper seals or inadequate caulking or by you covering it.

I somehow doubt whether or not the cover, by itself, was the culprit. The cover is probably a "breathable" fabric so there shouldn't have been a huge heat buildup. The temps may have increased but surely not enough to cause that kind of sudden delamination. There may, however, been an excessive heat buildup to the point where it caused the two sections to separate. But again, the way in which it has separated just looks a bit strange when talking about delamination.

There is also the possibility that there was some kind of water penetration that took place during the time of the orginal owner and; with a rise in temperature or defective product - the delamination was accelerated.

I really don't have any solutions for you other than going back to Keystone for another try. As you probably already know, this isn't going to be a cheap repair - unless you feel that you can tackle it yourself. Hopefully, something will work out for you.

[Englishman]

If you are a member of Good Sams or trailer Life you may be able to get them to help with your claim with keystone. Good Luck.

[Radioguy]

Thanks again, guys. I will make another run at Keystone and begin to think of my next move with the unit. I will also look at some repair options that will keep it looking orthodox.

[azlee56]

I am really interested in this claim, and learning from it. I would think your insurance would come into play on this too.

If it was me, I would probably consult an attorney.....what attorney I have no idea. Instead of giving up I would read more.

[Radioguy]

Just got an email from Keystone after a more insistent note. Keystone has agreed to review my situation and will allow the local dealer to submit documentation to the factory warranty department for review. They have promised to respond within 48 hours of receiving the information from the local dealer.
I am happy for this opportunity...hope it works out.

[KJcachers]

Btw, "inspecting" your roof from looking out the second floor window is not going to cut it. You need to get up top and eyeball every inch of seam and caulk up close. You tell a dealer or manufacturer that that is how you inspect your roof and you will lose any warranty repair.

[Unhappy Camper]

My 2012 2480rkwe has a curved filon panel in the front. and a flat back panel. The luan does not bend without breaking. I know that the front filon panel is NOT backed by luan. The backing is a compressed paperboard much like a 1/8th inch thick cereal box.

This bend easily but is very prone to DLAM if moisture gets in. I have been told that the rear panel is not backed by luan. Only the side filon panels are backed by luan.

I have also read that RV covers and trapped heat can kill (DELAM) the front and rear filon panels.

[mtntent]

radioguy
I have the same problem with my 24 couger 2010 and am dealing with keystone now

[Bugle Boy]

I think it would be very important to hire an "expert" and find out exactly why this happened. My gut tells me that the glue used failed for whatever reason.

Maybe there is a way to contact the manufacturer of the panels and find out how they are constructed, what glue was used or maybe they could help determine the root cause of the failure.

Bottom line.....this should not have happened if the panels were properly engineered and installed.

[Albert]

There were several post a couple of months ago on this forum about covers causing delamination

[Steve 911]

All this info about delam certainly is not encouraging to a new rv guy looking to make his first Cougar TT purchase....
Are thre any TT's out ther that do not have a delam issue on the front or roof?
Being a newbe I'm all ears...
Thanks

[Albert]

Steve,

Mine is fine. I was going to buy a cover for mine, but after reading posts about delamination due to covers I decided to build a pole barn.

[Steve 911]

Albert,
That sounds like a great idea. I wish I had the room in my side yard....lol

[Albert]

Steve,

That is about the only benefit with having some acreage. I spend most of the summer mowing, weed eating, spraying, trimming and working in the garden. Time could be better spent camping more.

[okbluemax]

I didn't have any problems until I put an RV Cover on my trailer and left it all winter, took the cover off and the front of the cap looked like someone had danced on it. Warped and wavey,looks like crap.
2009 Keystone Cougar X-lite 27 rls.
3 years parked outside no problems !!!!!
First winter with a RV cover BAM,
No inside water damage. has to be the Cover being on it before the problem shows up. weak glue? bad material?
I am going to buy a new Toy Hauler , and will do lots of looking and research before I buy this time.

[SAD]

I didn't have any problems until I put an RV Cover on my trailer and left it all winter, took the cover off and the front of the cap looked like someone had danced on it. Warped and wavey,looks like crap.
2009 Keystone Cougar X-lite 27 rls.
3 years parked outside no problems !!!!!
First winter with a RV cover BAM,
No inside water damage. has to be the Cover being on it before the problem shows up. weak glue? bad material?
I am going to buy a new Toy Hauler , and will do lots of looking and research before I buy this time.

Local restrictions permitting, get yourself an RV carport.

[Bob Landry]

I've never seen delamination that looked like that. Usually, delamination is separation of the outer gelcoat from the luan that it's bonded to and appears in the form of raised blisters. The wrinkles in the photos appear to represent heat damage and possibly some moisture under the gelcoat. I have read several accounts by people claiming to have damage caused by heat buildup from using a RV cover, and I would be suspicious of that.

[Cougarfamily]

I didn't have any problems until I put an RV Cover on my trailer and left it all winter, took the cover off and the front of the cap looked like someone had danced on it. Warped and wavey,looks like crap.
2009 Keystone Cougar X-lite 27 rls.
3 years parked outside no problems !!!!!
First winter with a RV cover BAM,
No inside water damage. has to be the Cover being on it before the problem shows up. weak glue? bad material?
I am going to buy a new Toy Hauler , and will do lots of looking and research before I buy this time.

Exact same thing happened to our '09 Cougar 26BHS the first time we covered it. Wish we could put our 5er under a covered parking structure.