New Cougar

[caser41]

Just picked up our new 276rls Couger. Took about 2 hours for the inspection. Everything seems to be ok, except for some minor imperfections in the cabinet work. We will be taking it out for our maiden voyage soon. I am hoping all goes well. I will keep anyone interested posted.

[det]

Just got my 293 SAB So far so good . Pulled to were I keep it in the summer and got 13.5 Mpg. The only thing I am having problems with is the heat blows to hard in the back and not hard enough in the front, got to be a way to fix it, just havent had time yet.

Happy RVing

[roger]

Like home furnance units the air flow to each room is thru ducts the thru dampers,closing one off a little will change your airflow.........but I don't know if the folks at keystone would know how to install one with out messing it up.:rolleyes:

[mikel68]

Just got my 293 SAB So far so good . Pulled to were I keep it in the summer and got 13.5 Mpg. The only thing I am having problems with is the heat blows to hard in the back and not hard enough in the front, got to be a way to fix it, just havent had time yet.

Happy RVing

We are in the middle of a battle with Kestone right now over this issue. Unfortunately our attorneys will probably have to get involved. We've had it in the shop, same model as yours, owned less than a year, for about 2 months now, AGAIN. Keystone has refused to fix it, they said it is working normally. There is a 40 degree difference between the master and the back bedroom and the thermostat is next to the master. Absolultely no air is going to the front two vents. NONE! and they say it is normal. Our dealer has agreed there is something wrong, what choice do they have, it's a piece of junk. Our dealer is suggesting a booster fan in the line, but Keystone will not okay this, as far as warranty work. I sincerely hope you don't run into the same trouble with keystone as we have. :eek: Our unit is less than a year old and has been in service for over seven months. No exageration.

michael

[roger]

You'll have to see if the ducts are damaged under the unit because the air is going some place. Yes you'll need your lawyers,I'm using them now because Keystone will not work with you no matter how many phone calls you'll make. I had my trailer for two months and returned it to the dealer,now the gloves are off and going toe to toe with Keystone.:mad:

[grizzlygiant]

I was strongly considering the purchase of a Laredo but reading reports like these scared me; I have switched my focus on a Heartland Sundance.

[det]

:confused:Well unit is at dealer, they say that they have had this problem with this unit before and know how to fix it. Have not contacted the dealer since it went in but they told me they would fix it. Also all cabinet door sticking (when two come together) they said they would fix them as well as a door with a small problem. Well let you all know how it comes out.

[mikel68]

Hey, you guys having trouble with heaters, has anything been able to be fixed yet? Has any kind of fix at all occurred? Who have you been talking to?

I've been talking to Brandon Toms. for close to 2 months now. Also spoken with a Mike McGraw. And also got some information from a Keven Furham (spelling?).

In our last discussion with our dealer supposedly Keystone admitted there is a problem, but is not able to fix it, so basically it is operating within factory specs.

Our History, I'll keep it sorta short. Kuehne HVAC, Insco Distrubing, and Crestview RV, our dealer, confirm there is problem. Keystone recommended and made the comment they would work with Kuehne HVAC and their technicians to fix our problem

Well, all the above including the manufacturer of Suburban heaters have now CONFIRMED problems. Keystone is doing absolutely NOTHING!! They are treating us like dirt.

Our findings/measurements were in 1. Cubic Feet per Minute (cfm), 2. Room temperatures, & 3. Temperature the unit cycles off at the thermostat.

(all of these is after a keystone authorized claim )
1. front bedroom cfms 20, front bathroom cfm 0, living room cfm 69, back bedroom cfm 109, back bathroom 179.

2. front bedroom 57 degrees, front bathroom 54 degrees, living room 69 degrees, back bedroom 89 degrees, back bathroom 91 degrees.

3. The heater never cycled off using the thermostat in over 8 hours of use set a 70 degrees.

Keystone recommended using registers that close. On the Suburban Manufacturing website it specifically said not to close down registers or it may damage the furnace.

Plus closing down registers did nothing to improve temperatures or cfms.


This may seem like a small issue, it's just ductwork, but our dealer lifted the stairs and checked the ducts, no fix there.


When it gets cold and one side of the rv has a 30 degree difference, it is not always 91 degrees on one side sometimes it's 70 degrees and 40 degrees with a 30 degree swing.

If you have any luck with Keystone, let us know.

[email protected] (remove the REMOVE)


mikel68

[roger]

Mike,
your cfm can be controlled thru dampers inline and the temps are going to vary due to the length from the furnance thru proper insulation you can get a better heat temp control so it will be close thru out the trailer but again leave it to Keystone.:eek:

[Durable]

This may not be the answer for all of you, but here's my 2-cents worth. My wife and I own a 2008 310SRX. We too have had problems with the furnace heating our fifth wheel evenly. The culprit, from my own inspections, is shoddy installation of the ductwork. We dry camp on a regular basis, relying on solar panels as our primary power source. The Suburban blower is a huge draw on the batteries, espcially on chilly desert nights. I've installed a DESA Vanguard model VP20BTB blue flame space heater, using a quick-connect valve and flexible propane hose. The heater is unvented, requiring you to leave a vent or window cracked open for oxygen replacement. The heater comes equipped with an oxygen sensor and thermostat, which according to the manufacturer, will shut the heater down before oxygen levels get dangerously low. It's rated at 10,000/20,000 BTU, depending on the setting, and heats our entire trailer, including the garage portion, within 10 minutes. The added benefit for us is no draw on the batteries (2 - 6 volts in series). On low setting, it keeps the chill out all night long. The website is: http://www.vanguardheat.com/productsType.cgi?type=2&target=10488.2.10480.0&cat=

[Festus2]

Uneven and poor heat distribution in Keystone 5th Wheels, and I ***ume in Trailers as well, is a common problem. As a member of the now defunct Keystone Camping Forum, I came across numerous posts about this issue. Some owners have tried with varying degrees of success to attempt to fix this problem on their own having given up on Keystone.

Some of the "fixes" included installing adjustable heat registers, vacuuming and cleaning out the ductwork, and re-routing the ductwork in the belly storage compartment (below the upper bedroom). The first fix produced minimal if any improvement. Vacuuming and cleaning the ductwork found all sorts of debris (tools, sawdust, lunches, coke cans, etc. left by Keystone employees. A couple of people reported satisfactory results when they re-directed the ductwork - eliminating the 90 degree bends or by smoothing out the angle so that the airflow would be better.

The space heater solution mentioned above is a good one providing you leave windows open enough to replace the Oxygen used by the heater. I use a Mr. Buddy heater which has a low-oxygen sensor but unfortunately no thermostat.

Other solutions are to put your long johns on or throw on an extra blanket if the nights get too cold.

[zepp303]

Well I don't have a 5th wheel unit but have a 33 ft Keystone travel trailer a Zeppelin 303 .From factory the duct to one area had come off at the furnace.I reconnected and back in business. You guys may have the same type of problem. You might want to take off vents one at a time at the furance and get a shop vac and put it on blow. Just to see if the duct work is connected they may have not connnected it some place and this would help narrow it down a bit.

Hope this Helps out

Dan the Zep Man :D

[RVokie]

Just finished our maiden voyage as well, in our new 276RLS. Going back to the dealer next week to get a shower drain leak fixed, as well as a leaking water pump. Other than that, everthing else seems to work OK so far. It was an extremely windy and rainly weekend, so it was a good test for water intrusion.

[Festus2]

Caser41
Congratulations on your new purchase. We bought a new Cougar (2008 278RKS) last year and have been very satisfied with it. The fit and finish on the cabinetry in some areas leaves something to be desired but overall, we think we have a pretty good unit for the money. We will be getting rid of the mattress very shortly -- despite having put a piece of 2 inch memory foam topping over it, the basic mattress is really a piece of cheap, low-quality "junk". But poor mattress quality in most new RV's seems to be the norm.
I think you will enjoy your new rig......... like all of them, they are not without their problems as you probably know anyway.
Good camping.....enjoy..
Richard

[det]

Well heres the latest from my dealer. Duct found under steps to bedroom 3 extra feet coiled up. They removed the extra ducting and straighten it out and now tell me that its much better. (we will see) Have not picked up the unit yet, will be picking it up sat April 24, I will let you all know what happens.

Happy Rving:eek:

[antiqfreq]

I, too, feel that the bedroom is always colder than the rest of the fiver; but we don't use the heat that much and if we do it is just to get the 'chill' out of the room.

I have a ceramic oscillating heater with a remote control and a thermostat that I can pre-set before retiring for the evening so I just turn it on and go to bed. I used it in my hybrid 4 years before buying this river and have used it in my fiver for over a year now with NO problems.

The hubby does plan to open up the steps to the BR and check out the duct work to see IF it can be re-routed for better flow but really isn't on our priority list yet.

Good Luck All,

Jo

[det]

Ok, Here we go, picked up unit Sat. April 18. Tech said unit was better, however I checked it out and dont see much diffrence, just small amount. They told me that there was 3 extra feet of ducting under the stairs. He said they removed the extra ducting and was greatly improved. I will try the unit out in May and report back as to if it helped or not. Keep campin !:(

Det

[nmdano]

We are in the middle of a battle with Kestone right now over this issue. Unfortunately our attorneys will probably have to get involved. We've had it in the shop, same model as yours, owned less than a year, for about 2 months now, AGAIN. Keystone has refused to fix it, they said it is working normally. There is a 40 degree difference between the master and the back bedroom and the thermostat is next to the master. Absolultely no air is going to the front two vents. NONE! and they say it is normal. Our dealer has agreed there is something wrong, what choice do they have, it's a piece of junk. Our dealer is suggesting a booster fan in the line, but Keystone will not okay this, as far as warranty work. I sincerely hope you don't run into the same trouble with keystone as we have. :eek: Our unit is less than a year old and has been in service for over seven months. No exageration.

michael

I choose to use magnetic vent covers over the rear vents so that the balance of air went to the front. This worked for us.

[caser41]

Well we picked up our Cougar, and went out for a long weekend to shake things out. We experienced no problems. On the 27th of May we left for a journey to Northern Canada, and Alaska, returning at the end of August. We had a few minor problems. We had a leaky black tank valve.

We stopped at a keystone dealer who repaired it under warranty after contacting our dealer and keystone. We traveled to Inuvik where we had the fresh water valve under the trailer start leaking. Stopped at a dealer and replaced the valve myself. No tire problems whatsoever. We put trailer away for the winter.

In May of this year we took the trailer out. Found the linoleum was cracked in the bedroom and the kitchen area. Although it was out of warranty, Keystone and the dealer agreed this shouldn't happen and replaced it free of charge. This past summer we traveled throughout BC, Alberta and Sask. But I did notice the heat was more at the back than the front.

On returning and before putting the trailer away for the winter I mentioned it to the tech. who looked at it during our routine inspection and said he had to reconnect the tubing where it had come away from the vent.

So as you can see, so far we are pretty happy with our Cougar. I hope that you people that are having problems get everything resolved to your satisfaction...

Travel Safe.

[hankpage]

Always good to hear positive post on service . I'm jealous, you seem to be really enjoying your Cougar while mine sits in the yard waiting for spring-time. Welcome back home.
The flexible duct they use gets kinked under the step into the bedroom and in storage area. Replacing this duct with metal elbows and a more ridged duct will greatly improve heat-flow to the bedroom.

http://inlinethumb58.webshots.com/43449/2956539550047821328S425x425Q85.jpg

[Flyguy]

When Keystone installs the AC units they seal the ducts with aluminum foil duct tape by covering all around the AC cavity and then cutting an X in the tape where the duct openings exit so that the ducts will be clear and open to the registers, they are supposed to push the tape down so it sticks and leaves the duct open, mine wasn't that way and one duct was blocked, I took down the air return cover so I could get to the ducts and fixed mine, if you want to do the same, here's a link that tells you how: http://eaa1358.com/Passport/Air%20Conditioning/AC%20Maintenance.pdf
it's something that you can check in a low airflow situation, and you don't have to take it all apart to see the ducts, I only took down the plastic trim and the metal trim plate.

[roll300]

Hi all I just join the forum and we are camping in are new 2010 293SAB. It is 40 deg out side and we use a ele heater, but sounds like I need to check this. When I pick up the unit I didn't think much of the flex duck duck work. I think that they should have used insulated flex duck. It is used in homes and commercial setting everyday. The imbalance of air flow sound engineering issue with Keystone. Sounds like they need to use balance dampers in the sys to make the sys work more evenly. (Just my 2 cents worth)

[campboy]

How odd, We just got rid of a sundance for a Cougar because it was a piece of crap.

[CLUSINGER]

Has anyone had any luck with the heating issues in the Keystone Fifthwheels? The furnace in my fifth wheel is not usable if anyone else is staying in the trailer with us. Back bedroom is 20 degress plus warmer than the master. Pretty much all of the solutions mentioned (i.e. inline booster and dampering) are not recommended per manufacturer's manual. i tried dampering anyway, did little to help air flow in the front bedroom, but would at least keep the back room from being over heated. It appears to me that it's a combination of the unit design and the duct layout. The air tap for the front of the fifth wheel comes off the infloor duct system with a 4" duct - then splits - one duct to the bedroom and one duct to the bathroom. i had some luck in elimating the bathroom duct all together. The design of the furnace itself seems to limit the airflow - With the "bottom" connection used, the air flow is greatly restricted by the the front panel - really not easy for the air to flow around the heating chamber - thus creating more static pressure before the air even leaves the unit.

[Festus2]

I believe Hankpage has made some modifications to the ductwork leading to the upper bedroom in his 5th. He has a post on this thread showing part of his handiwork. I have similar problems with heat distribution to the upper bedroom in my 5th but I am guessing that it is smaller than yours and with a different layout. I have replaced the vent covers with ones that have adjustable louvres so you can shut off the warm air from the one or two in the lower section of the 5th which slightly increases the flow to the upper bedroom. I also plan to replace the flex ducting with rigid ducting this Spring. That might improve the flow to the upper bedroom as well. Somehow, I think that the upper bedroom will never see adequate air flow. Not sure if it is a design issue, a furnace that is too small to do the job, a long duct run or ????? Extra blankets work wonders.

[CLUSINGER]

Thanks for the reply. I tried the adjustable grilles, it helps "some" with the overheating in the back bedroom, but does nothing to push any additional air to the front. Also, after installing adjustable grilles, i pulled out the owner's manual - it states not to restrict the air flow at the grilles or install an inline booster fan. It won't be an issue to close off the air at the grilles as long as I create another means for the additional air to discharge - to maintain close to the same static pressure on the fan. Easier said than done though. For me anyway, if we're by ourselves, then there's really not an issue with it being colder in the front bedroom, but there's no way anyone else would be able to stay in the back bedroom. i haven't put a thermometer in that room, but i'm sure it's 20 degrees plus warmer in there. I think re-ducting the entire system may be the only way to correct it - by using the side and front discharge locations. The furnace has plenty of air volume - but by using the bottom discharge on the unit i don't think enough air gets by the heating chamber within the unit.

[det]

Has Anyone talked to Keystone, is there anybody else we can talk to? My 293sab is a great trailer except the heat, 30 degrees hoter in back bed and bath eve hotter.

[Killinski]

We just purchased a 293 and had no air volume in the front 2 (bedroom/bathroom) vents. We put adjustable vents covers on the back bathroom and bedroom vents, but that only made it a tiny bit better. Still a problem.
The following improved things enough to heat the front of the trailer.
-Replaced the 4" hose from the floor (under step) to the wye with 4" hard flex dryer hose and 90 degree elbow. Less curves plus smooth sides improves air flow.
-Replaced the T box with 4" to 3" wye. The T box greatly reduced air flow. The wye allows for straight flow to the bedroom with a 45 degree angle to the bathroom. To improve the flow, 3" was used to the vents. 4" to 4" would have made the flow worse.
-Replaced 4" hose with 3" hard flex dryer hose to both vents. Adapter used at each vent to go from 3" to 4".
-Used heat tape (home heat ducting tape) to seal all connections
With the back 2 vents cracked open just a little, the front vents now get enough air flow to heat both rooms. It does take a couple of minutes for the front vents to start pushing a good air flow. Needs to develope enough pressure. About $50 in parts and about 2 plus hours works. It was worth the effort.

[hankpage]

KILLINSKI, Nice fix. Mine only has one forward vent so hard flex and metal elbows fixed mine. Also try metal vent tape on the knock-outs on the heaters plenum ..... this increased the pressure to my vents. Welcome to the forum, Hank

[Festus2]

Good ideas and suggestions for those of us having the same problem. I need an explanation of "wye"........ Is this the same as "Y"? Obviously, I am missing something here.......Welcome to the Forum. Oh me of little brain and of numerous senior moments.

[hankpage]

Good ideas and suggestions for those of us having the same problem. I need an explanation of "wye"........ Is this the same as "Y"? Obviously, I am missing something here.......Welcome to the Forum. Oh me of little brain and of numerous senior moments.

Yes ... a wye is a y ....... unless it's a tee-wye than it's the same as a t-y. :D It has to do with the shape and angle of the fitting.

[Killinski]

You got it. Thanks for the welcome comment and the knock-out suggestion.
Additional info
-Wye, elbow and adapters came from local hvac company. All other parts from Home Depot.

[det]

Well, Back at the dealer the heat problem goes on and on. 45 degree difference between front bed and back bed. (293sab) Keystone says that the fix is in the front ducting, a y tube needs to changed. Not sure what they meant. For all you other folks having heat problems the furnace (suburban) says do no plug any duck work with magnets or louvered vents.
Keep Campin:confused:

[john I]

We too have a brand new 293sab and found the same problem, to much heat in the back and not enuff in the front, and it comes down to balance. All forced hot air heating systems wheather in your house or your camper need to be balanced, with out getting into to much science it has to do with static pressure in other words the longer the pipe the harder the air has to over come resistance,an since the pipe or duct if you like, to the back bed room is shorter the less resitance it meets. to shorten this explanation go to your home improvment store and replace the grills with louvered ones or close off half to 2/3erds with a pice of cardbaord or somthing to force mor air elswhear you may have to do others until you balance it to your likeing

john i