Black Tank Flush - Do We Really Need This?

[Festus2]

When talking about modern achievements and inventions, The Black Tank Flushing system surely has to rank right up there with sliced bread, electric cars, and "smart" phones.

A while back, the RV gurus met at one of their annual Think Tank seminars and decided that we should all have one of these systems in our RVs. It would, they deemed, make our RVing life simpler and easier. This new system would keep our black tanks clean and sweet smelling - the dream of every RVer. Just connect a hose, turn on the water and Presto - a Black Tank to be proud of.

So the manufacturers assembled all the parts - a few feet of plastic pipe, a 49 cent plastic vacuum breaker check valve and another cheap spinning gizmo, affectionately known as "No Fuss Flush", put them all together and the infamous Black Tank Flush was born. No more build up of crud in the tank. No more smell. No more "FULL" black tank gauge readings. Just a sparkling clean tank. Right?

Fast forward a few years and what do we have? Check valves that have blown apart causing your bathroom to fill up with water. Black tank gauges that still read "FULL". Foul-smelling odors emanating from the toilet. If the vacuum breaker should break, where is the darn thing? Buried behind some wall or panel? Hidden from view under your sink?

Not that long ago when no one ever heard of or thought about Black Tank Flushing "technology", RVers got along quite nicely without this system. Empty at the right time and keep lots of water in the tank were all anyone had to do. No downpours of water spilling out of your bathroom and gauges that still read FULL.

So here we are. Stuck with this "No-Fuss-Flush". Do we really need this? Or want it?

[chuckster57]

My '97 Jayco didn't have it. I made it 13 1/2 yrs without one. Current rig has one, and I think it's DA BOMB!

[Javi]

The new Cougar has one but I doubt I will ever use it and might even put a cut-off in it or just plug it like I plan to do with the washer connections.

[therink]

I love mine and use it all the time. To flush well it does take time which I don't always have when the poop line is long. I make a point to flush when I can and I never have poo odors in the rig and don't need chemicals, other than a little detergent.

[jtyphoid]

Previous trailer didn't have one, current one does. I like having it and I use it more often than not; especially on the final dump before our trailer is going to sit for several weeks without being used.

I view the issue of the cheap parts breaking as yet another good idea made iffy by poor implementation.

[hankaye]

Festus2, Howdy;

More obtuse thinking would have them creating these items,
No-Fuss-Flush, hidden water pumps, heaters that don't work
and the 'Idiot light that communicates the fault code pointed at
a 180* direction from which it may be viewed are put in place
so that forums such as this will have a never ending source for
us to vent our spleens and shake a fist at and ... :banghead:

Kick back, and enjoy another adult beverage and read the comedy.

hankaye

[GaryWT]

To date I have not had any issues with it. I use it once or twice a year. Prior to having one, never had any issues either so it is what it is.

[Ken / Claudia]

This is the first of 9 rvs I have had that have it. Because it is new to me I went on camping trips about a year before using it. I just forgot about it. Last 3 camp trips I used it each time while dumping at the park. So far black tank gauge works right. At this time I am on the fence regarding if it is good to use or really helps anything. I think if you flush the tank when full or near so containing a lot of liquid you should not need it.

[outwest]

Having camped for years in family's rig that didn't have tank flush system and now having one, I gotta say that I prefer the flush system. Without it, I had to sit and hold down the foot pedal for long periods of time to fill and flush the black tank in order to rinse it. Now I can close the valve for 2 or 3 minutes and run the flush system. Repeat a few times and most of the leftover bits are gone. The other option is the wand that you stick down the toilet and then have to drag through the trailer without dripping sewer along the way and finding a place to store it, which is an option I'm not real keen on, to put it mildly.

Yeah, it definitely needs improvements (brass hardware, for example), it has to be installed correctly (sometimes they get installed backwards at the factory which results in not working or worst case scenario of them rupturing and flooding the place), and gotta be sure to run anti-freeze through it come winter, but...

[Desert185]

What I like about it:

After I close the drain valve for three minutes, letting the black tank fill somewhat (with a pressure regulator on the hose) it get a few more discolored bits out of the tank. Repeating the process will result in clear water draining. This has to be a good thing.

What I don't like about it:

Its plastic, and prone to break, but I found a brass one that will be installed before my next trip over Christmas. Probably still use the pressure regulator for the sprayer in the tank...just in case.

[Signguy71]

I helped a friend winterized his camper this weekend and he doesn't have one. My tank had no odor at all and his did. He takes care of his camper very well and has some fancy way of an add on flush, but it doesn't compare to mine that is built in. I would never buy a camper without one..

[Festus2]

I helped a friend winterized his camper this weekend and he doesn't have one. My tank had no odor at all and his did. He takes care of his camper very well and has some fancy way of an add on flush, but it doesn't compare to mine that is built in. I would never buy a camper without one..

Maybe we don't have any choice. If RV manufacturers are going to have a built-in black tank flush system as one of their "standard features", why not use components that don't quickly self-destruct and cause many owners grief and frustration in having to deal with flooded bathrooms or other sections of their RV?

What is the point of having such a system that requires the owner to either eliminate it all together, to replace cheap, unreliable parts (anti-siphon valve) with something that will not easily break, and to install it in such a way that it is reasonably accessible?

While it may work well for others, I won't use it because I don't trust it. :banghead: If I took the time and effort to install a brass valve, I would probably use it. Now, if I can only remember where that darn valve is ...... behind the stereo cabinet somewhere I think. Behind the stereo????? Of course - aren't they all there?

[JRTJH]

Hey Festus2, If I ever remember to pick up a brass valve for my "no fuss flush" system, I'll get one for yours too. Until then, like you, I'd rather step on the toilet flush valve to fill the tank rather than risk flooding the bathroom with a "less than reliable standard build" convenience system. And mine is easily located under the bathroom sink, no cutting out the walls for me <sigh>

It seems using the system is almost as stressful as watching the LED's on a new awning burn out one at a time..... ping.......ping.....ping...... :banghead:

[Albert]

I just replaced mine with a brass valve, cost me $15. Took me about 5 minutes to replace. However, it was in a very accepable area, under the bathroom sink.

What I will say is that I would never have know that they could be a problem or even what the valve was, or where it was located, or how to upgrade it, without the very informative senior members who so generously contribute to this forum. Thank you.

John

[randy69]

You have two option, buy or make a wand or put a brass back flow preventer in also use a pressure regulator for back flow preventer. My plastic back flow preventer flooded out my rv. Bought brass. And also made a wand 1/4 ss tubing x 40 " with 1/4 ss tubing tee and other end hose bib.

[hankaye]

Festus2, Howdy;

I can say with a certainty, that after 182 (approx.), uses,
the fix that I employed has worked without a drop being dripped
and the system works fine for me. I flush my tank when I dump
generally on Saturday afternoons.

hankaye

[Bugsmema]

Ok, we had one of those spinners in the black tank that was awesome. I say was cause, it has stopped working. Can't figure out where it is let alone how to fix it. We have a 2011 298RE. So, bought one of those fancy little wands that you shove down toilet bowl into the tank. Gauges don't work so not real sure how clean I get it. I just keep doing it till water runs clear then add the good smelling stuff to keep it smelling as fresh as a Daisy! Really liked the built in thingy till it stopped. Any suggestions on how to fix it? Does the whole tank have to come off? If so, that's not going to happen. ;)
(tx)

[theeyres]

I've been using various kinds of RVs for the past 40 years. Never had a flush system until the last two. It does make the cleaning process a little easier but not sure there is any need for it. In the past I always thought the black tank was a black tank. No need to clean--it was a port-a-poti. Never cleaned those older RVs black tank and never had a problem. I guess, all and all, I think it is mostly a marking ploy and not something most people have to worry about.

[Tom]

I look at the black tank flusher (this trailer is the first one I've owned that had it) as a handy item but not a necessary one.

It's puzzling to me how many users on this thread seem to be using it. I only use it when the black tank valve is open which means that there's no chance of any flooding problems. Doesn't seem like a good idea to use it with a closed valve which would allow pressure to build up in the tank. Of course If I had an assistant to keep the toilet valve open to prevent pressure buildup that would be OK. Seems pointless though since it does a good job with the black water valve open. JMHO

If I want to put water in the tank I always use the toilet to do so.

[outwest]

I look at the black tank flusher (this trailer is the first one I've owned that had it) as a handy item but not a necessary one.

It's puzzling to me how many users on this thread seem to be using it. I only use it when the black tank valve is open which means that there's no chance of any flooding problems. Doesn't seem like a good idea to use it with a closed valve which would allow pressure to build up in the tank. Of course If I had an assistant to keep the toilet valve open to prevent pressure buildup that would be OK. Seems pointless though since it does a good job with the black water valve open. JMHO

If I want to put water in the tank I always use the toilet to do so.
If the tank is properly vented (vent properly installed, etc), then there shouldn't be any pressure buildup. Of course, the keyword is "if".

[JRTJH]

You should not have any problems overpressurizing the black tank using the flush system. If the tank wasn't vented properly (at least as far as pressure is concerned), there would already be issues with bubbling and gurgling when the toilet is flushed with anything over a half full black tank. Almost always, if there's an issue with inadequate tank venting, the toilet will "wet your knees" when you flush. Venting isn't something that just sneaks up on you. If there's a problem, it shows up in pretty dramatic ways.

Now a leak in the venting system, that could go un-noticed for a long time before it becomes a problem, but that wouldn't overpressurize the tank by using the No Fuss Flush system.

Usually (especially with a regulator on the hose) water flow in a 1/2" garden hose is around 3 gallons per minute. The spray nozzle further restricts water flow, so you really aren't filling the tank rapidly when you use the system. As a "kind of general rule", if you have a 30 gallon black tank, using the flush system, it would take about 10 minutes to fill the tank. If you really want to get an "accurate estimate" of your flow, START WITH A CLEAN BLACK TANK , hook up the flush system, close the empty black tank valve, run water for one minute, open the valve and drain into a 5 gallon bucket. You should be about 3/5 full. That quick test will tell you how long you should leave the flush system running with the valve closed to get the amount of "fill" you want in the tank.

Many people don't realize that the spray nozzle and the supply hose aren't capable of putting a "lot of water" into the tank in a short time. How much water really depends on your specific installation. If you don't know how fast your tank is filling, you are "best guessing" how you use it. By checking how much water you get in a given time, you'll know how full (or empty) your tank is while the valve is closed.

Of course, if you use the system "per instructions from Keystone", that would never be a problem.

[jje1960]

I've used the black flush since buying the trailer in Fall of 2010. However, just yesterday, I learned something on use.... Pay attention to the sticker that say's to only use with the black valve open. I was using our macerator yesterday to dump at home after a long weekend for the Morgantown romp of Baylor.... Anyway, I turned the black flush on before opening the black valve... Big mistake, clear water started running down through an access hole where all the lines run up to the bathroom compartment. I quickly turned it off, opened the black valve, started dumping as usual. After a minute or two, turned the black flush back on, no more water running down from above. Lesson learned, actually read and follow instructions!

[Javi]

I've used the black flush since buying the trailer in Fall of 2010. However, just yesterday, I learned something on use.... Pay attention to the sticker that say's to only use with the black valve open. I was using our macerator yesterday to dump at home after a long weekend for the Morgantown romp of Baylor.... Anyway, I turned the black flush on before opening the black valve... Big mistake, clear water started running down through an access hole where all the lines run up to the bathroom compartment. I quickly turned it off, opened the black valve, started dumping as usual. After a minute or two, turned the black flush back on, no more water running down from above. Lesson learned, actually read and follow instructions!

That's actually a backflow preventer and its plastic and the leak had nothing to do with the tank valve being closed.. Just coincidence... You can read this thread from the beginning and/or many other threads about the plastic backflow and the fix.. which is not expensive but an inconvenience when you think that for $5 more the manufacturer could make the fix unnecessary.

[greengiant]

I like the flush. I used to mess around with gallon jugs of water to dump down the toilet: some to try to rinse out extra 'stuff' , and some to dump down after its empty and closed so there would be water in there with the treatment stuff (maybe the treatment is unnecessary to begin with but that's a topic for another thread). In short, that was a pain.
New Hideout TT has the flush, and a bonus is a second entry door to the bathroom, so before I start dumping, I open the bathroom door, and I can wander around to check on the check valve to make sure there's no issue. If there's no line at the dump station, I do as others mentioned-close the black valve and let it fill a few minutes and then open back up to rush out extra solids. Is it necessary, certainly not. Do I like keeping the tank 'cleaner' and not messing with jugs of water-yes. Hopefully my second winter doesn't cause any issues if I properly blow the lines again.
Great topic.

[gkainz]

Mine seldom gets used, as most of the NF Campground dumpstations I visit either don't have a flush hose or those that do, don't have a threaded fitting on the end.

I do use it at home during the occasional dump cycles here. I have a sewer clean out next to my parking spot.

[DaleB]

First I would like to say to Festus that that 49 cent check valve he mentioned is actually on sale for $54.95. It should only be 49 cents because it is nothing but apiece of well actually junk as mine did not work from day one and flooded my bathroom. I called Keystone customer service and the Man I talked to was clueless as to what it was and he had never heard of any problems. Funny that when doing a search I have read off all kinds of problems with this part. Now I realize that the people answering the phones can not know everything but at least they should be able to transfer you to someone who does. For those of you that are not aware of what this devise is I will tell you that it is in place to prevent bacteria from entering the supply water that is used to back flush your tank.The vacuum breaker check valve is most generally located under the sink in the bathroom and is a black plastic looking thing with a line going in and a line coming out. Sometimes they are installed wrong at the factory.

[theeyres]

I have been RVing for 50 years. Yes, count 'em. I now have the flush system but never felt the need. Never had a black tank plug up. Never had problems with smell. Always thought the black tank was just a holding tank so no big deal. I just have to think this is all a big gimmick where everybody follows along. Give me another 50 years and I'll figure out if it is worth worrying about or not. For now, I'll dump when I need to and not worry about it. I'll just treat the tank as a holding tank and let it go as that.

[64tbolt]

I look at the black tank flusher (this trailer is the first one I've owned that had it) as a handy item but not a necessary one.

It's puzzling to me how many users on this thread seem to be using it. I only use it when the black tank valve is open which means that there's no chance of any flooding problems. Doesn't seem like a good idea to use it with a closed valve which would allow pressure to build up in the tank. Of course If I had an assistant to keep the toilet valve open to prevent pressure buildup that would be OK. Seems pointless though since it does a good job with the black water valve open. JMHO

If I want to put water in the tank I always use the toilet to do so.

if the tank is vented how do you pressurize it. I installed one and use it every time I dump. Just have to be smart enough to not over fill the tank. Mine being an add on the bfp valve is in the connection installed in the tank. Never knew the fact systems were routed inside the trailer. Now that is dumb.