10000 gvwr

[DJOutfitters]

I need some help. I have a 2006 F250 4X4 PSD Crew Cab Long Bed that we use for our tow vehicle. We just purchased a 2014 331mks. I took the trailer and truck to the scales. I have a problem and need some advice.

Combined
Steering Axle 5300# rating 6000#
Drive Axle 5940# rating 6100#
Trailer Axles 8460#
Gross 19700# rating 23000

I think to myself. Looks good so far. Except the GVWR on the truck is 10000#. I'm over by 1240# and the trailer isn't completely loaded. So I'm standing there scratching my head wondering what is going on. So I drop the trailer and go back to the scale.

Truck alone.
Steering axle 5300
Drive axle 3920
Gross 9220

So I'm almost at my GVWR with just the truck. So it looks like I have to empty the 100 gal of diesel out of the tank in the bed and take the 1600K winch off the front of the truck. That will put me close to the outer limits. We have very little in the garage storage area. Thoughts or suggestions?

[Toy Teacher]

Easy More Truck(tx)

[Hansel]

Did you go too a CAT scale???

My truck is a F-250 CCSRW non 4X4 and it wieghed in a 6560lbs and my GVWR is 8800lbs, that leaves me over 2K too carry/tow.

Your weight's sound wrong, your less than 800lbs from your GVWR:confused:

Here is my truck specs:

Truck by itself:

Steer axle=3780 lbs
Drive axle=2780 lbs

Gross wght= 6560 lbs

[JRTJH]

The F250 is a "strange beast" in that when equipped with a diesel, there's not a "lot" of payload left. If, as you indicate, you add a 100 gallon fuel tank to the bed and install a 16K winch on the front, by the time you put your family and a little cargo in the truck, you're pushing max payload.

A 2013 gas F250 supercab long bed 4x4 weighs about 7300 lbs EMPTY. with a diesel and the crew cab chassis, that goes up about 800 lbs. If you do the math, even with my gas engine, my payload is about 2700 lbs. With a diesel, it's down to about 1900 lbs. That's before you add the aftermarket items you have.

The above figures are "generalities" and not specific to any particular truck, but Ford leads us to believe in their advertising that the "max payload" of 4200 lbs (that's really what they advertise). The unfortunate truth to that is the 4200 lbs is only available on a standard cab 4x2 SL model with no options. When we add options, bigger cabs, longer beds, aftermarket tanks, winches and hitches, we even reduce the payload further. It's not suprising to find a current model F250 fully equipped with an aftermarket tank and winch like you have with an available payload of less than 1000 lbs. Add family and there's no payload left to equip the truck with a hitch, let alone the pin weight of the truck.

A consideration for you, even though a dually F350 will give you "enough" payload to manage your truck with the equipment you have installed, you really won't have very much available payload after you hitch the trailer to the truck. With the 1000 lb + in aftermarket additions, you are approaching F450/F550 territory.

[Javi]

I find it unusual that none of the pin weight is transferred to the front axle, at least a couple of hundred pounds should go there.

Check my signature... for the weight of my F-250 diesel F250

You're probably going to have to get rid of the extra tank and the hitch, maybe even clean out behind the seats and take all unnecessary tools out.. it's easy to add a few hundred pound to the truck without even noticing.

I cleaned over 300 lbs out of my toolbox and took out the 70lb bed mat from the list in my signature so I know it can be done. I now have about 2300 payload left but need to go reweigh to be exact.

[Brantlaker]

Does the Truck have a Lift kit, Off Road Tires,Light Bar, Brush Guard ? Even the extra fuel tank has extra weight. I have a Snow Plow attachment under my truck that weighs 85# and the wiring weighs 9# it all adds up. Also the Crew Cab adds #.Ford starts out with a 2Dr basic truck for the base weight and the then when you add on anything it takes it a.way from the 10,000 lb gross

[rhagfo]

I need some help. I have a 2006 F250 4X4 PSD Crew Cab Long Bed that we use for our tow vehicle. We just purchased a 2014 331mks. I took the trailer and truck to the scales. I have a problem and need some advice.

Combined
Steering Axle 5300# rating 6000#
Drive Axle 5940# rating 6100#
Trailer Axles 8460#
Gross 19700# rating 23000

I think to myself. Looks good so far. Except the GVWR on the truck is 10000#. I'm over by 1240# and the trailer isn't completely loaded. So I'm standing there scratching my head wondering what is going on. So I drop the trailer and go back to the scale.

Truck alone.
Steering axle 5300
Drive axle 3920
Gross 9220

So I'm almost at my GVWR with just the truck. So it looks like I have to empty the 100 gal of diesel out of the tank in the bed and take the 1600K winch off the front of the truck. That will put me close to the outer limits. We have very little in the garage storage area. Thoughts or suggestions?

Time to loose the 100 gals of extra fuel, that is 715# plus the weight of the tank, that will put you in better shape!!

It is the cruse of the 3/4 ton!!

I find it unusual that none of the pin weight is transferred to the front axle, at least a couple of hundred pounds should go there.

Check my signature... for the weight of my F-250 diesel F250

You're probably going to have to get rid of the extra tank and the hitch, maybe even clean out behind the seats and take all unnecessary tools out.. it's easy to add a few hundred pound to the truck without even noticing.

I cleaned over 300 lbs out of my toolbox and took out the 70lb bed mat from the list in my signature so I know it can be done. I now have about 2300 payload left but need to go reweigh to be exact.

%er transfer almost no weight to the front axle, the load is normally either directly over the rear axle, or just maybe 4' forward.

[fla-gypsy]

Every vehicle has limitations. A 3/4 ton truck is a great tool but they have limits too. The diesel engine and 4x4 (1k added weight) eat up the available payload potential plus you gave up 700 lbs more to the extra tank.

[Hansel]

"So I'm almost at my GVWR with just the truck. So it looks like I have to empty the 100 gal of diesel out of the tank in the bed and take the 1600K winch off the front of the truck. That will put me close to the outer limits. We have very little in the garage storage area. Thoughts or suggestions?"

My bad:banghead:

missed the part with the 100 gallon tank in the bed:( but there is probably 8 or 900 lbs right there, it's nice too carry that much fuel, but you pay the price in not carry as much of a load.

[Javi]

Time to loose the 100 gals of extra fuel, that is 715# plus the weight of the tank, that will put you in better shape!!

It is the cruse of the 3/4 ton!!



%er transfer almost no weight to the front axle, the load is normally either directly over the rear axle, or just maybe 4' forward.

Sorry... for a moment I forgot this was another pastime where the laws of physics are suspended. :D

[Ken / Claudia]

Knowing that the differnce from 3/4 to 1 ton is springs and sometimes tires. Make it a 1 ton. I have checked fords severals times, not in last 5 years, The only difference was springs. Some 3/4 come with 8 ply tires and all 1 tons have 10 ply. If your state has vehicles inspections this may not help, here folks do change trucks GVWRs by upgrades.

[Mark TC]

Here are the Ford specs
http://www.ford.com/resources/ford/general/pdf/towingguides/13flrv&tt_superdtypu.pdf


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[JRTJH]

Here are the Ford specs
http://www.ford.com/resources/ford/general/pdf/towingguides2ADD3FAD/13flrv&tt_superdtypu.pdf


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Mark, Please doublecheck your link. It won't work and goes to a "Error Page Exception"

[SAD]

Sorry... for a moment I forgot this was another pastime where the laws of physics are suspended. :D

I'm not sure if you're joking or not... But a 5er/goose puts very little (in some cases none) weight on the front axle when hooked up.

With a 3000 lb pin, i'd be surprised if you put more than 100 lbs on the front axle.

[Hansel]

Knowing that the differnce from 3/4 to 1 ton is springs and sometimes tires. Make it a 1 ton. I have checked fords severals times, not in last 5 years, The only difference was springs. Some 3/4 come with 8 ply tires and all 1 tons have 10 ply. If your state has vehicles inspections this may not help, here folks do change trucks GVWRs by upgrades.

I would think there is more too it than springs, and my F-250 use's a 10 ply tire, so that's not what makes them a 1 ton.

[DJOutfitters]

I figure 1000# for fuel and tank. 150# for winch another 75# on the hidden winch mount.

It looks like the 2014 331MKS is about 200# heavier on the pin than the 2013.

I would like to thank everyone for their input.

[JRTJH]

I'm not sure if you're joking or not... But a 5er/goose puts very little (in some cases none) weight on the front axle when hooked up.

With a 3000 lb pin, i'd be surprised if you put more than 100 lbs on the front axle.

SAD,

You are correct, any weight added to the bed directly over the rear axle will increase the front axle weight very minimally. But the further forward that load is placed, the greater the percentage of it's weight will be shifted to the front axle.

I think more what Javi was referring to was the 800 LB+ of fuel tank/fuel that is mounted in the front of the bed. It is going to add a significant percentage of it's added weight to the front axle. Anything behind the rear axle will add to the rear and decrease the front. Anything between them will effectively add a part of the weight to both and anything in front of the front axle will add to the front and subtract from the rear. The OP stated he has about 800 LBs of fuel tank in the bed and a 16K winch on the front bumper. There will be a substantial added weight to the front axle as well as to the rear axle (tank, hitch and pin weight).

Unfortunately, with the accessory load of over 1000 lbs and the hitch of about 150-200 lbs, if the OP has a "passenger load" of 400-600 lbs, it looks like he will be pretty much at GVW even without the fifth wheel.

[DJOutfitters]

Looks like I'm in the market for a f450:D

[Ken / Claudia]

Hansel, When I wanted a heavy duty ford in 96 I read thru the sps. booket, and in 01 and 05,I have not checked since than. All parts brakes, axles, frames, engine, etc. were all same for 250, 350srw, 350 drw. They have different springs, tires and options such as axle ratios. I thought that the 350drw models had bigger everything comparing to a 250 but, not true at least when I read from the sales bookets back page were lists that kind of stuff. Springs, it's all about the springs and how many ford puts on them.

[Javi]

I'm not sure if you're joking or not... But a 5er/goose puts very little (in some cases none) weight on the front axle when hooked up.

With a 3000 lb pin, i'd be surprised if you put more than 100 lbs on the front axle.

No I'm not kidding in the least... How much weight is transferred to the front axle depends on how far in front of the rear axle the load is placed.
Place it directly between the front and rear axle and you will find equal transfer between the two.

Place the weight 4" in front of the rear axle and a smaller percentage will be transferred, 6" will transfer a larger percentage. This is easily calculated with a couple of simple measurements.

Place the weight behind the rear axle and you will begin to take weight off the front axle as the frame acts as a fulcrum with the rear axle.

Of course this assumes that the laws of physics apply...

Hansel and I are both aware that the laws of physics have been suspended for archey so I'm not too surprise to find the same in RV'ing...:D

[Hansel]

Hansel, When I wanted a heavy duty ford in 96 I read thru the sps. booket, and in 01 and 05,I have not checked since than. All parts brakes, axles, frames, engine, etc. were all same for 250, 350srw, 350 drw. They have different springs, tires and options such as axle ratios. I thought that the 350drw models had bigger everything comparing to a 250 but, not true at least when I read from the sales bookets back page were lists that kind of stuff. Springs, it's all about the springs and how many ford puts on them.

I'm going to do some research on the difference's, because now I'm curious;)

I don't think throwing more springs will automatically turn my truck into a 1 ton, but I will find out:)

[SAD]

I was unaware that the placement of the pin varied enough to warrant discussion.

I assumed it was at the rear axle center line, or within 4" ahead.

[JRTJH]

The pin weight would not significantly affect the front axle weight, but installing an 18" wide (1000 lb) fuel tank at the front margin of the bed would put the CB (not CG) of that tank about 30" forward of the rear axle. That would add a significant amount of the total weight to the front axle. A "guesstimate" would be about 25-33% of the 1000 lbs would be shifted to the front axle.

[JRTJH]

I'm going to do some research on the difference's, because now I'm curious;)

I don't think throwing more springs will automatically turn my truck into a 1 ton, but I will find out:)

Throwing on heavier springs "may" increase the capability of the truck to carry more weight, but the "licensed GVW" is still what is located on the sticker on the driver's door jam. Legally changing that sticker to reflect the increased capacity may be more expensive both in getting the approval and in future licensing/registration fees than it would be worth. If you live in a state with a mandatory vehicle safety inspection, there may also be a yearly "issue' getting it inspected.

[Hansel]

Throwing on heavier springs "may" increase the capability of the truck to carry more weight, but the "licensed GVW" is still what is located on the sticker on the driver's door jam. Legally changing that sticker to reflect the increased capacity may be more expensive both in getting the approval and in future licensing/registration fees than it would be worth. If you live in a state with a mandatory vehicle safety inspection, there may also be a yearly "issue' getting it inspected.

I'm not going to change my truck, but I am curious if that is really the only difference between a 3/4 and 1 ton truck.

[concours]

When we bought our 331 MKS I did the math over and over the result was it was too close with a 2500 so we went with a 2wd 1 ton and pleased we did as with all the extras we would have been way over the legal limit we now have room for extra fuel, fresh water and the dog

[Javi]

Sad... not so much on a long bed crew cab but the shorter the A2A the closer to C/L that 4" makes things. It isn't how far in front of the rear axle, it's how far from center. Think seesaw

[Javi]

I'm not going to change my truck, but I am curious if that is really the only difference between a 3/4 and 1 ton truck.

Can't speak for eariler models but 2011-2013 the only difference between my truck and the F350 SRW is the spring spacers. Mine are 2" and the F350's are 4" tall.
Part numbers have been compared and matched part for part.

[BigBearWV]

Have the specs changed that much from 06 to 14.
Here is the specs for the 14's
http://www.ford.com/trucks/superduty/specifications/towing/

[JRTJH]

Have the specs changed that much from 06 to 14.
Here is the specs for the 14's
http://www.ford.com/trucks/superduty/specifications/towing/

Here are the specs and the build sheets for the 2006 Superduty lineup. There are some pretty significant changes in the '06 and the '14 model years.

https://www.fleet.ford.com/TRUCKBBAS/non-html/2006/vs_pdf/fseriessd-ms_06.pdf

[rhagfo]

Can't speak for eariler models but 2011-2013 the only difference between my truck and the F350 SRW is the spring spacers. Mine are 2" and the F350's are 4" tall.
Part numbers have been compared and matched part for part..

Before 2013 most 250/2500 were 350/3500 SRW with lighter springs. Both with Camper Packages had the 350/3500 spring packages, but lower GVWR for licensing purposes.
When I dropped our new 5er on our Ram 2500 with Camper package, figured I was good and at about GVWR, as it didn't even engage the overloads. Boy was i wrong! I have no reason to change, truck sits fine, tows fine, stops fine, handles great.

[JRTJH]

If you go to the Ford Build Sheet, you will see that for the 2013 F250/F350 the rear spring packs are "rated" 6100/6730. This might be done with "mirrors and silk scarves" (magic) but I think it's more than a spring spacer to increase the spring rating that much.

Also, the rear axles are different between the F250, F350SRW and F350DRW' Here are the differences per the charts on page 83 of the build sheet:

Axle Shaft — Spline Minor Dia. (in.) 1.36 1.50 1.35 —
Spline Major Dia. (in.) 1.50 1.57 1.42 —
No. of Splines (Hub End) 35 37 35

As you can see, the axle shaft the spline diameter and the number of splines is larger on the F350 SRW. With dual rear wheels, the axle shafts and spline measurements return to "near" the F250 measurements. I don't believe the same "rear axle assembly" can be installed in both vehicles with these differences in axle shaft machining. I did not check the 2012 or previous model years, so they may have the same axle assemblies, but the 2013 F250 and F350SRW do not have the same rear axle or spring packs.

[Javi]

If you go to the Ford Build Sheet, you will see that for the 2013 F250/F350 the rear spring packs are "rated" 6100/6730. This might be done with "mirrors and silk scarves" (magic) but I think it's more than a spring spacer to increase the spring rating that much.

Also, the rear axles are different between the F250, F350SRW and F350DRW' Here are the differences per the charts on page 83 of the build sheet:

Axle Shaft — Spline Minor Dia. (in.) 1.36 1.50 1.35 —
Spline Major Dia. (in.) 1.50 1.57 1.42 —
No. of Splines (Hub End) 35 37 35

As you can see, the axle shaft the spline diameter and the number of splines is larger on the F350 SRW. With dual rear wheels, the axle shafts and spline measurements return to "near" the F250 measurements. I don't believe the same "rear axle assembly" can be installed in both vehicles with these differences in axle shaft machining. I did not check the 2012 or previous model years, so they may have the same axle assemblies, but the 2013 F250 and F350SRW do not have the same rear axle or spring packs.
John the axle listing in the build sheet is a misprint that has been around for the past 3 years. If you go to the actual parts book and look up the numbers you will find that they are the same for both the 250 and the 350 SRW. Many of us on the Ford Truck forum have done so and even a Ford engineer answered the question with an affirmative. Brakes are the same, axle is the same, frame is the same, springs are the same.

The additional rear axle rating comes from the tires and wheels.. Mine are LT245/75R17E which have a load rating of 3195 so it'd be kind of difficult to get that 6730 from that...

The F350 has rear axle ratings from 6290 when equipped with the same tire I have. When equipped with 18"& 20" tires it jumps to 6730.
http://www.fordparts.com/Commerce/CatalogResults.aspx?y=2014&m=Ford&mo=F-250 Super Duty#Search


5560 (http://www.fordparts.com/Commerce/PartDetail.aspx?n=blNVgq5QFy5gdetMdhB%2bIw%3d%3d&id=265649715&m=2&search=true&year=2014&make=Ford&model=F-350+Super+Duty)

Rear Spring (http://www.fordparts.com/Commerce/PartDetail.aspx?n=blNVgq5QFy5gdetMdhB%2bIw%3d%3d&id=265649715&m=2&search=true&year=2014&make=Ford&model=F-350 Super Duty)
Ford 250 Series Wide Frame (Pickup) With Single Rear Wheels Ford 350 Series ; 2WD, With Diesel Engines, Ford 350 Series, 158"/4013MM Wheelbase, 156"/3962MM Wheelbase, 172"/4369MM Wheelbase

[Hansel]

After reading some of your post, I thought there was a larger difference but there is not, I even started a couple of threads on some truck forums and the answer is the same, looks like the real difference is just springs on the SRW truck.

So if that is the really only difference, then why such a price difference:eek:

Not trying too open a can of worms, but if the trucks are almost identical other than springs and badges, why such a huge price difference. I guess that's how they stay in business:cool:

[DJOutfitters]

So how do insure this f450? My agent says that we will have to have a commercial policy. This rv idea is turning into one expensive hobby. And I thought there were hoops to jump through to get a class 7 ffl. I hate to say the ATF was easier to deal with. Hahaha

[JRTJH]

I would check a different insurance agent. There should be no requirement to buy a commercial insurance for private use of a private vehicle. Now, if you were using your F450 for commercial purposes or if it were licensed to a business, that would be different, but if you're putting private license plates on it and using it for private transportation, he's not reading something correctly.

[Hansel]

So how do insure this f450? My agent says that we will have to have a commercial policy. This rv idea is turning into one expensive hobby. And I thought there were hoops to jump through to get a class 7 ffl. I hate to say the ATF was easier to deal with. Hahaha

It should be a simple question from your agent, is it for private or business.

Answer, PRIVATE!!!!!

I think he's giving you the run around:rolleyes:

[Ken / Claudia]

I was told or read the same thing many times by guys with 450s/ 550s when weighting them and looking at insurance policies they said comm. vehicle even if they were only pulling RVs and had passenger vehicle plates. I did ask a driver once but, he did not know. My guess which is only a guess is the GVWR. Only a agent may have the answer.

[DJOutfitters]

We just purchases an 02 350 dually with a 7.3. Feeling much better now. Cat scale outcome was not what I expected.