LT tires

[Quad]

My question is, I'm debating between LT Transforce HT's and LT Sailun S637's. My GVWR is 13,000lbs. Each axle is 6,000 lb axle (Still don't understand that), my rims are rated for 3580lbs @ 100psi max. But....Transforce HT's are rated for 3042lbs @ 80psi. Sailun's are rated for 3550lbs at 100psi. Both seem to fit the weight category with pin weight in mind on the truck. Sailun's being 14 ply and used in trailer ing applications I'm guessing would have a stiffer ST style sidewall in scrubbing turns. Can anyone help with more pros and cons? My main concern is I don't want to wait until I have and issue with a blow out. I'd rather change out now and lessen the chance of a blow out.


2005 Silverado 2500HD D/A
2013 Laredo 321BH

[hankpage]

First: Your 13000 lbs. GVW is being supported by two axles (2x6000= 12000) and the pin (15% min but closer to 20% = 1,950 (or landing gear) so 6000 lb axles are sufficient.

Next: The Sailuns in most sizes are all position tires - steer - drive - commercial trailer. I believe only one size is rated as trailer use only. I have not heard anything bad about these tires.
As for the Transforce, I have no knowledge of these, Maybe someone else can offer their opinion.

JM2¢ ..... Check with the manufacturer on recommended inflation for trailer use. it may be different than what is stated on the sidewall.

[Jim W]

I can't help you on either tire but I am using Michelin XPS Ribs on my trailer which are inflated to 80 PSI.

The only thing I would recommend is too make sure that the tires are balanced when they are mounted. This alone is a great improvement on your towing experience.

Another item to have is an IR heat gun to check on tire temps when towing. Establish a base line with the first three or four measurements taken over a couple of days once this is establish check your next readings to the base line. I have found tire issues in the past by checking tire temps every two to three hours when stopping for either fuel or a break in driving.

Jim W.

[CWtheMan]

My question is, I'm debating between LT Transforce HT's and LT Sailun S637's. My GVWR is 13,000lbs. Each axle is 6,000 lb axle (Still don't understand that), my rims are rated for 3580lbs @ 100psi max. But....Transforce HT's are rated for 3042lbs @ 80psi. Sailun's are rated for 3550lbs at 100psi. Both seem to fit the weight category with pin weight in mind on the truck. Sailun's being 14 ply and used in trailer ing applications I'm guessing would have a stiffer ST style sidewall in scrubbing turns. Can anyone help with more pros and cons? My main concern is I don't want to wait until I have and issue with a blow out. I'd rather change out now and lessen the chance of a blow out.


2005 Silverado 2500HD D/A
2013 Laredo 321BH

Let's look at this from the trailer manufacturer's point of view. To even the playing field they MUST build trailers according to the minimum standards dictated to them via a list of numerous government regulations. For the GVWR, GAWR, tires, rims and recommended tire pressures for your trailer they MUST follow these primary regulations; FMCFA 570.120 and 49 CFR part 567. What is most misunderstood about those regulations is they pertain to the trailer builder and not the public at large. The trailer builder sets the minimum standards for each trailer they build when they affix the certification label to it.

Industry standards, mostly written by the Tire & Rim Association & the Rubber Manufacturers Association will abide by the vehicle manufacturer's minimum standards. I can post numerous references to support the industry standards. I like the one below the best because it also has all sorts of other good and need to know information in it and it's easy reading.

http://us.coopertire.com/Tire-Safety/Replacement-Tire-Guide/Load-Capacity.aspx

When the trailer has GAWR 6000# axles fitted to it and depicted as such on the certification label it presents a dilemma for the owner when replacement tire time rolls around. The OE tires are most often ST235/80R16E mounted on 16 X 6 rims. Keystone likes to place their axles close together and with the 16" tires they will often use 33" axle spacing which eliminates a lot of 16" tire selections for plus sizing. If the owner wants to change designs (ST to LT) there may not be any to fit the situation without having to also get some new rims. The popular 16" LRG tire requires a minimum rim width of 6.5".

Because many owners are discouraged by anecdotal information found in the internet tire forum threads,m they overlook the fact that there are higher load capacity ST tires available, by numerous manufacturers. The ST235/85R16E has a load capacity of 3640# at 80 psi and the ST235/85R16F has a load capacity of 3960# at 95 psi.

CW

[CWtheMan]

Each axle is 6,000 lb axle (Still don't understand that).
2005 Silverado 2500HD D/A
2013 Laredo 321BH


When the trailer manufacturer has finished building the trailer there are certain figures used to insure it will meet government scrutiny. One example is the relationship of the axles weight and hitch weight. The combined total of the GAWR axles and the manufacturer's published hitch weight MUST equal or exceed the trailer's GVWR.

CW

[therink]

When I bought my fiver in sig brand new, I had dealer installed Transforce HT tires before I would sign the papers. I have 5200lb axles (barely marginal for my 12,400 gvwr). Anyway, I have only used them one season but so far so good. I certainly have a lot af faith in them versus the Chinese junk Keystone provides.
Oh yeah, make sure whatever you get, have them balanced.

[Quad]

The Transforce HT were a LT245/75-16 and the Sailun S637 were a LT235/85-16. The Sailun max pressure is actually 110psi with max weight of 3750lbs (I think). But my rims are max weight of 3580lbs @ max psi of 100. So I was thinking of running the Sailun at 100psi by a load inflation chart that puts them at 3550lbs at 100psi and that would match my rims better. I will email the manufacture about if there is a trailer specific psi to run them at. Never thought of that and also thanks for explaining the GVWR vs axle Weight rating. Makes better sense now why they have 6000lb axles on it.

So let's say I have 15% pin weight at max GVWR (throwing a worst case scenario of rolling weight down the road on the trailer) That would be 1950lbs and the trailing weight on the axles would be 11,050lbs. So 4 transforce HT's would be a total of 12,168lbs. So that would be over my 11,050lbs of rolling weight by 1,118lbs. Also running the Sailun's at 100psi with 3550lbs would result in a capacity of 14,200. Well over my GVWR. So I would be covered there too. Right???

I remember reading that the Sailun's had a stiffer side wall than Normal LT tires. But can't find the article. Has anyone heard or had problems with side scrubbing LT tires while turning tight?


2005 Silverado 2500HD D/A
2013 Laredo 321BH

[CWtheMan]

When I bought my fiver in sig brand new, I had dealer installed Transforce HT tires before I would sign the papers. I have 5200lb axles (barely marginal for my 12,400 gvwr). Anyway, I have only used them one season but so far so good. I certainly have a lot af faith in them versus the Chinese junk Keystone provides.
Oh yeah, make sure whatever you get, have them balanced.

There are a couple of catch 22s to your tire deal with the dealer. Number one; the dealer does have the authority to change tires. However, the load capacity the manufacturer provided with the OE tires must be maintained with the replacement tires and the certification label must be changed to reflect the new tires size and recommended tire pressures. Number two; New vehicle manufacturers - including RV trailer manufacturers - must maintain a list of OE tire serial numbers for your trailer for five years.

SO, did the dealer get permission to use lower load capacity tires on your trailer from the manufacturer? Did the dealer insure there was a new certification label installed with the correct sized tire at the time of first sale? And, did the dealer provide the manufacturer with a list of serial numbers for the new tires?

CW

[CWtheMan]

The Transforce HT were a LT245/75-16 and the Sailun S637 were a LT235/85-16. The Sailun max pressure is actually 110psi with max weight of 3750lbs (I think). But my rims are max weight of 3580lbs @ max psi of 100. So I was thinking of running the Sailun at 100psi by a load inflation chart that puts them at 3550lbs at 100psi and that would match my rims better. I will email the manufacture about if there is a trailer specific psi to run them at. Never thought of that and also thanks for explaining the GVWR vs axle Weight rating. Makes better sense now why they have 6000lb axles on it.


2005 Silverado 2500HD D/A
2013 Laredo 321BH

The Sailun has a lot of good reviews on this and other forum tire threads and at the retail outlets that sell/install them. However, I don't think it's safe or wise to use rims that are not capable of supporting the maximum load and psi of the installed tire.

http://www.sailuntire.ca/MRT/S637.html

CW

[therink]

There are a couple of catch 22s to your tire deal with the dealer. Number one; the dealer does have the authority to change tires. However, the load capacity the manufacturer provided with the OE tires must be maintained with the replacement tires and the certification label must be changed to reflect the new tires size and recommended tire pressures. Number two; New vehicle manufacturers - including RV trailer manufacturers - must maintain a list of OE tire serial numbers for your trailer for five years.

SO, did the dealer get permission to use lower load capacity tires on your trailer from the manufacturer? Did the dealer insure there was a new certification label installed with the correct sized tire at the time of first sale? And, did the dealer provide the manufacturer with a list of serial numbers for the new tires?

CW

No the dealer didn't. He also put on 265 85 16 whichare ttaller than the oem tires. The tires are rated I believe at 3042 lbs at 80psi which exceeds the 5200 lb axle rating. Should I be concerned?

[CWtheMan]

No the dealer didn't. He also put on 265 85 16 whichare ttaller than the oem tires. The tires are rated I believe at 3042 lbs at 80psi which exceeds the 5200 lb axle rating. Should I be concerned?

My postings don't always get joyous reviews. I tell it like it's supposed to be done. The ultimate decision is stored in the conscious of the owner. I'm not going to second guess the vehicle manufacturer. The industry at large isn't going to do that either.

CW

[therink]

CWtheman
I appreciate your candid answer but you still didn't answer my question. My tires exceed axles ratings. Should I be concerned about my LTs?
Thanks

[CWtheMan]

CWtheman
I appreciate your candid answer but you still didn't answer my question. My tires exceed axles ratings. Should I be concerned about my LTs?
Thanks

The answer to your question can be found on the bottom of page 18 in the reference below.

http://www.keystonerv.com/media/728922/owners_manual_final_4-25-13.pdf

CW

[jsmith948]

It seems to me that one will always be limited by the weakest link in the chain.
If I put higher ply rated tires on our 5er, I will still be limited by the other components of the suspension and/or the axles, bearings, etc. I went from D to E rated tires not to increase my payload capacity, but, to allow more 'reserve' or 'cushion'.
I get what others have said about adhering to the sticker on the side of the trailer. IMO, as long as you don't carry more weight than the sticker allows, AND you don't replace any components with something rated at less than what is enumerated on the sticker, there is no foul. Unless one believes that the slide-rule gurus have the right to tell us whether or not we can put a higher rated (better) tire on our property (trailer). FWIW :)

[BeerCan]

The answer to your question can be found on the bottom of page 18 in the reference below.

http://www.keystonerv.com/media/728922/owners_manual_final_4-25-13.pdf

CW

The bottom of pg 18 is double speak and CYA.

The answer is as long as the tires maintain proper clearance and have a LR in excess of GAWR you will be fine. Use common sense, don't get a tire that is to wide, has to aggressive of a tread or to low of a LR.

[BeerCan]

My postings don't always get joyous reviews. I tell it like it's supposed to be done. The ultimate decision is stored in the conscious of the owner. I'm not going to second guess the vehicle manufacturer. The industry at large isn't going to do that either.

CW
Please. Your postings are often misapplication and misunderstanding of the the various regulations the govern motor vehicles and trailers.

<...snip>
I have edited my post to state that I often do not agree with CW interpretations of the regulations and encourage people to read them for themselves. They are confusing and ambiguous and subject to many different agencies over-site and often contradict. Bottom line is use your head, safety first and when in doubt ask.

[CWtheMan]

Please. Your postings are often misapplication and misunderstanding of the the various regulations the govern motor vehicles and trailers.

<...snip>
I have edited my post to state that I often do not agree with CW interpretations of the regulations and encourage people to read them for themselves. They are confusing and ambiguous and subject to many different agencies over-site and often contradict. Bottom line is use your head, safety first and when in doubt ask.


What is a misapplication? It's a tire industry word and is most often used when replacement tires are of a different design, size and load capacity than the Original Equipment tires. (That's those tires identified by the vehicle manufacturer on the vehicle's certification label).

There is a tire industry term called "plus sizing" I've never seen one for minus sizing. Anyhow, misapplication statements are commonly found in tire owner manuals and tire warranty packages. Michelin voids any warranty when they deem their tires have been misapplied. They will use a qualifying/disqualifying statement found in the tire safety section of our trailer's owner's manual that is going to say, "use replacement tires the same size as those found on the tire placard or others recommended by the vehicle manufacturer" - or something close to that quote.

Section 571 is the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards and applies to the manufacture of vehicles and equipment, not to the operators and owners of those vehicles. Notice that there is nothing there that says "Thou shall not operate". It all says "Thou shall not make".

Tire industry standards are mostly found in the Tire and Rim Association manual. A lot of the information in those manuals are confidential and we would have to be a member to get into the manuals on line. Most of the large tire manufacturers will have the unclassified stuff in their tire data books, maintenance manuals or tire bulletins. NHTSA placed the responsibility for tire and rim selection and recommended tire pressures squarely on the shoulders of the vehicle manufacturer. Therefore, tire industry standards will not be written for any procedures contrary to the trailer manufacturer's actions under NHTSA guidance.

Because the RV trailer industry is not a motorized industry there are no replacement tire recommendations manuals to guide us when tire replacement time rolls around. SO, with wheel and tire assembly in hand we are going to find a multitude of different recommendations from the vast network of tire retailers. When they can sell us some tires without having to put a vehicle vin on the bill of sale they will sell what is in the house and make it sound like the best deal in the county. If we ask them right up front to put our trailer's vin number on the bill of sale they are most likely going to want to see the trailer's owner's manual or tire placard for OE tire identification. When we call Michelin and ask if it's OK to use LT235/85R16E tires on our 6000# trailer axles they are going to say yes. If we tell them we want to use that same size tire to replace the OE ST235/80R16E tires on the same axle the answer is going to be no.

CW

[SAD]

subscribed

[BeerCan]

I'm not playing. This is going to disintegrate into an argument and no one will win. All is I am saying is you cannot take a sentence here and a paragraph there and pretend you know what the regs are supposed to mean.

True story, my work put in many hours of time and got payed a large sum of money to talk about the meaning of the word "and". 1 word had a large number of people and probably a good bit of your tax dollars tied up for days. Bottom line in these regulations is that meaning and intent are often not the same.

[JRTJH]

In the interest of maintaining harmony and preventing arguments on the forum, I am closing this thread.

As with any "fits all" regulation, wording is usually not intended to be interpreted by the "end user" but rather the lawyers who represent the "end user". This is an RV forum not a legal forum, so let's stick to what we do best, talking about RV's and RV related topics.

I think the bottom line has been established here in the various posts. As long as the "weakest link" is large enough to support the maximum load and the components work together to maintain the application in which they are used, they should satisfactorily accomplish the goal. An RV owner should be able to rely on the advice of a competent "tire guy" to help him make the decisions on which tires are suitable for use on his particular RV. If there is any doubt, then getting the advice of a second competent "tire guy" or even contacting the RV manufacturer or the tech service section at Lippert may help.

A few of our members are "professional experts" in the variety of areas we discuss, but being essentially an "anonymous member forum," none of those qualifications are validated or verified. (That is NOT to be interpreted as a "slam" against any member), rather it is intended as a caution for ALL members to do "due diligence" with any advice they may receive here as the source may or may not be accurate.

I hope the OP's questions have been sufficiently answered and that his tire/wheel choice has been narrowed somewhat. Now, let's get back to what we do best, talking about RV's and how we maintain, use and enjoy them.