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View Full Version : New Wheel / Tire Combo Sneak Peek


Poppy's 5th Wheel
12-08-2013, 09:02 AM
Having been one of the lucky ones (at least in terms of these RV forums) and had no tire issues for over 10,000 miles with the OEM TowMaxx tires, I started seeing some wear on the shoulders especially on a couple of them. I have been reading all the tire horror stories and all the reviews and I decided I wanted to switch out my 15's for 16's and chose Sailun tires over the other choices.

I ordered 5, Sailun S637 235/85R16, tires through a local Big O Tire at $160 apiece. I ordered 4 aluminum and 1 steel 16" wheels from trailerwheelandtire.com for a total of $530 (about $119 per aluminum and $53 for the steel and no shipping). They arrived yesterday and I had the tires mounted with steel stems and balanced. The whole package came to under $1,500!

These tires sound and look amazing. The owner at the local Big O claimed I may never need new tires and that they would hold up extremely well especially with my relatively light trailer. I'm sure that won't be the case even just from age but at $160 a pop, I'm thrilled.

The trailer is at my repair facility getting a few things done like adjusting the main slide, realigning the awning and (from a previous post) packing the bearings and adjusting the brakes. I am taking the wheels/tires over tomorrow and they will put them on there.

Anyway, I thought I would share a couple pictures.

I guess it will be a while before I can report on how they hold up but I have very high expectations.

BTW, for those not familiar with the tires, here's a link: http://www.sailuntires.ca/MRT/S637.html

DieselMatt
12-08-2013, 09:21 AM
They look like they would be great tires! I am going to need new tires next season so I looked at the dealer locator and it appears that they are only sold Canada right now. Do you know anything about whether that is true or not?

Quad
12-08-2013, 09:45 AM
I'm liking those! They look awesome. I've been tossing these and LT transforce HT's around. Still haven't decided the path I'm going.


2005 Silverado 2500HD D/A
2013 Laredo 321BH

Quad
12-08-2013, 09:46 AM
http://simpletire.com/sailun-235-85r16-8244393-tires


2005 Silverado 2500HD D/A
2013 Laredo 321BH

JRTJH
12-08-2013, 11:38 AM
Paul,

With a trailer GVW of 10,000 lbs and tires rated at 3750 each, assuming your pin weight remains about 18% (that's the empty pin weight weight percentage), you're looking at a loaded to GVW capability of about 15,000 lbs on the tires and about 1800 lbs on the pin for a "theoretical tire/tongue capability" of 16,800 lbs. That's 68% over your GVW!!! No wonder the tire dealer told you that you'd never have a tire problem again. Just don't hit any curbs or run over any nails and you're probably set for the life of the trailer LOL

Poppy's 5th Wheel
12-08-2013, 01:45 PM
DieselMatt, there is at least one ebay seller that sells them and Big O Tires can get them. I don't know if you have Big O in your area. I would just call around to various tire dealers and see if they can get them.

JRTJH, at that price I can live with overkill "bouncey: Also, not sure what you mean regarding the nails and curbs. These should handle those hazards quite well! Plus, at a replacement cost of $160, I think it's a no brainer.

From Sailun's web site:

Tire Description:

The S637 is a versatile regional all-position tire, featuring five extra-wide ribs for exceptional stability at all speeds. An extra-wide solid shoulder resists damage caused by high-scrub applications, while a mirrored tread design ensures even wear. Wide grooves are designed for hydroplaning resistance, while a long-life rubber compound is engineered for extended tread life.


Features & Benefits:
•Multi-sipes improve traction in wet conditions and dissipate heat for prolonged tread life.
•Shallow tread designed to reduced rolling resistance for improved fuel economy.
•Unique tread wall grooves help reduce irregular wear and improve traction.

BeerCan
12-08-2013, 11:16 PM
There are many dealers in the US that carry these tires, just call around.

Mine have about 12k miles on them now and they are holding up great.

DieselMatt
12-09-2013, 05:38 PM
Thanks, I'll be looking for these for sure come spring time!

Bigsky3625
12-11-2013, 07:11 PM
Paul,

With a trailer GVW of 10,000 lbs and tires rated at 3750 each, assuming your pin weight remains about 18% (that's the empty pin weight weight percentage), you're looking at a loaded to GVW capability of about 15,000 lbs on the tires and about 1800 lbs on the pin for a "theoretical tire/tongue capability" of 16,800 lbs. That's 68% over your GVW!!! No wonder the tire dealer told you that you'd never have a tire problem again. Just don't hit any curbs or run over any nails and you're probably set for the life of the trailer LOL

Huh? 68% over the GVW is good? Not sure I understand your point.

JRTJH
12-11-2013, 08:00 PM
Huh? 68% over the GVW is good? Not sure I understand your point.

Read the entire thread and it might make more sense to you. I never said it was good......

Poppy bought new tires/wheels for his RV. The tires he got are significantly "over rated" for his RV. In fact, he now has tires/wheels that will carry 68% more than his GVW. I said, "No wonder the tire dealer told you that you'd never have a tire problem again."

I would think that with tires that "stiff" with the pressures he's going to have to run, that he may be transferring potential "tire problems" for "suspension problems" or for other issues that come from having no "give" in the tires to absorb the road vibrations/road shock inherent with towing a medium-heavy RV on today's roads.

But, the "jury is out" and I'm waiting to hear reports though the next couple of years oh his tire/wheel selection. I might learn that his experience is just the opposite of my concern... Time will tell and I may learn something I didn't know about "overbuilding" in the tire department.....

BeerCan
12-11-2013, 08:04 PM
I agree with JRTJH, there is a point of overdoing it. Tires are really your first "shock" absorber in the system. If you go to crazy and get a tire that is to stiff it will put more stress on the other components. And considering some trailers do not have shocks that may lead to cracks or other issues. Not saying it is going to happen in this case but it is something to consider when you plus size that much.

CWtheMan
12-12-2013, 01:06 PM
Having been one of the lucky ones (at least in terms of these RV forums) and had no tire issues for over 10,000 miles with the OEM TowMaxx tires, I started seeing some wear on the shoulders especially on a couple of them. I have been reading all the tire horror stories and all the reviews and I decided I wanted to switch out my 15's for 16's and chose Sailun tires over the other choices.

I ordered 5, Sailun S637 235/85R16, tires through a local Big O Tire at $160 apiece. I ordered 4 aluminum and 1 steel 16" wheels from trailerwheelandtire.com for a total of $530 (about $119 per aluminum and $53 for the steel and no shipping). They arrived yesterday and I had the tires mounted with steel stems and balanced. The whole package came to under $1,500!

These tires sound and look amazing. The owner at the local Big O claimed I may never need new tires and that they would hold up extremely well especially with my relatively light trailer. I'm sure that won't be the case even just from age but at $160 a pop, I'm thrilled.

The trailer is at my repair facility getting a few things done like adjusting the main slide, realigning the awning and (from a previous post) packing the bearings and adjusting the brakes. I am taking the wheels/tires over tomorrow and they will put them on there.

Anyway, I thought I would share a couple pictures.

I guess it will be a while before I can report on how they hold up but I have very high expectations.

BTW, for those not familiar with the tires, here's a link: http://www.sailuntires.ca/MRT/S637.html


"ST tires have a sidewall construction to help eliminate sway. A light truck tire does not have that construction." That's a quote from a popular LT tire manufacturer. With that in mind I think an inquiry from a Keystone tire expert will be required for the wellbeing of your trailer.

On a more technical note I feel compelled to ask about your new rim size. Almost all LT235/85R16G tires have a minimum rim width of 6.5" so I hope you got 16 x 6.5 rims.

I also think you should have a tire tech from Big O tires set a new recommended tire pressure for your LRG tires. My estimate would be somewhere between 97 - 100 psi.

CW

BeerCan
12-12-2013, 04:04 PM
Really the only ST tires that have any bearing on sway are the bias ply type. Otherwise sway is controlled more properly with correct load balancing and/or use of a sway control device and proper driving technique. Otherwise radial ST and radial LT have the same "type" of construction.

Radial Tires

An increasing number of trailer tires are being built using radial construction. While radial construction has represented the bulk of sales in passenger and light truck tires since the late 1960’s, trailer tires have somewhat lagged behind that trend. A radial tire is built using steel belts that run perpendicular to the tire’s bead. Then many layers of fabric and rubber (typically both synthetic and natural) are layered over the top of those steel belts. A radial trailer tire can be identified by the “R” in the size between its aspect ratio and its rim diameter (ie ST205/75R15 or ST235/85R16).

Choosing between a radial trailer tire and bias trailer tire represents a compromise in certain areas, while offering superiority in others. Radial trailer tires strengths are longer tread life, lower rolling resistance (less fuel consumption), ride quality, greater resistance to flat spotting (especially critical with trailers as they often sit for long periods of time) and flexibility. Radials are also usually lighter than an equivalent bias tire, reducing drag, and again using less fuel. On the negative side of radials, is their carcass sidewall is typically not as rigid as a bias equivalent – and in some circumstances can sway more. This is not true in every case, however.


Bias Ply Tires

Until recently, bias trailer tire construction was the platform of choice for most trailer manufacturers. A bias tire is characterized by its diagonal ply construction. Typically bias trailer tires are built using nylon cord, run at 30 degree diagonals. These fabric plies overlap each other, starting from the bead area. The result is a carcass that is typically very tough- especially in the sidewall area. On the negative side, bias ply tires are known to have much higher rolling resistance (as much as 60%) than an equivalent radial tire. They are also known to be more prone to flat spotting when sitting for extended periods of time without use.

AFA tire pressures if you do not weigh your trailer and use the load inflation tables you are merely guessing at the correct pressure to use. Without knowing the actually weights of the trailer the "Big O" guy would be guessing too. Of course if you know you are never going to go over GVW you can use that # as your trailer weight but the downside might be a harsher ride.

CWtheMan
12-12-2013, 05:11 PM
Really the only ST tires that have any bearing on sway are the bias ply type. Otherwise sway is controlled more properly with correct load balancing and/or use of a sway control device and proper driving technique. Otherwise radial ST and radial LT have the same "type" of construction.



AFA tire pressures if you do not weigh your trailer and use the load inflation tables you are merely guessing at the correct pressure to use. Without knowing the actually weights of the trailer the "Big O" guy would be guessing too. Of course if you know you are never going to go over GVW you can use that # as your trailer weight but the downside might be a harsher ride.

I do not intend for my postings to be a challenge for you. When I get information from a builders expert I feel I can pass that information along to others. Here is a copy of the Michelin tire expert that some of the information used in my previous post came from. I'm sorry it conflicts with your information. But, all similar tires in the same size and load capacity are constructed as equals so the Michelin should be like all others in it's calss.

V/R
CW

"Hello,
Thank you for your email. We welcome the opportunity to serve you.
You are correct, the XPS Rib is a light truck tire.

It is not normally considered a replacement for the ST tires because the ST tires have a sidewall construction to help eliminate sway. A light truck tire does not have this construction.

We appreciate your business and thank you for choosing Michelin.

It is our goal to ensure that your issue has been resolved or your question answered to your satisfaction. If we can assist you further, please respond to this email or call us at 1-800-642-4354 (toll free) between 8:00AM and 8:00PM Eastern Time Monday through Friday or between 8:30AM and 4:30PM Eastern Time on Saturday.

Sincerely,

Mike
Consumer Care Department
Certified Michelin Product Expert"

jlb27537
12-12-2013, 05:31 PM
"ST tires have a sidewall construction to help eliminate sway. A light truck tire does not have that construction." That's a quote from a popular LT tire manufacturer. With that in mind I think an inquiry from a Keystone tire expert will be required for the wellbeing of your trailer.

On a more technical note I feel compelled to ask about your new rim size. Almost all LT235/85R16G tires have a minimum rim width of 6.5" so I hope you got 16 x 6.5 rims.

I also think you should have a tire tech from Big O tires set a new recommended tire pressure for your LRG tires. My estimate would be somewhere between 97 - 100 psi.

CW

OK, lets talk specs.

My '14 Montana 3150RL had OEM Marathon 235/80/16E tires on Tredit wheels TO 8-Spoke rated @ 3750lbs 110lbs. They are 16"/6"
http://www.tredittire.com/T04-8-Spoke-P85.aspx

The same trailer/wheels with the Big Sky Package includes Goodyear G614 LT235/85/16G tires. They are installed on the same wheel 16"/6". So that means KEYSTONE is installing a tire and wheel assy that is not approved by the tire manufacture. ( I am sure Keystone has checked this out and feels it is just fine to install a LT 235/85/16G on a 16"/6" wheel.)

The Goodyear G614 tire as supplied by Keystone is marked as a LT tire as you can see in this link and it says it is suitable for 5th wheel and travel trailer.
http://www.goodyearrvtires.com/tire-selector.aspx
So my thinking is, if Keystone, with all it's attorneys, have decided it is OK to install a LT tire on it's Big Sky option, on a 16"/6" wheel, that is good enough for me.

As for tire pressure, the ONLY way to determine correct tire pressure required is to weigh the vehicle/trailer and determine the weight the tire/axle is carrying. You then consult the tire makers chart for recommended pressure required for that weight.

I'll give a example. My Ram DRW on the tire load plate on the door says I need to run 70psi in the rear tires. My truck has a rear axle GAWR of 9,350lbs. Loaded with my trailer the rear axle weighs 6,750. My tire chart says I need 55psi in the tires to carry this load. The point to this is, unless you know the tire load, you have no clue as to the proper inflation pressure that is required. I have run 55-58psi in the rears loaded and empty drop down to 40-45psi empty.

A KEYSTONE tire expert. You got to be kidding. They buy all their stuff from Tredit for the cheapest bid. All they worry about is getting a tire and wheel assy that will meet the DOT requirements they put on the GVWR sticker.
http://www.tredittire.com/Default.aspx

Moderators, I apologize if I am out of line, but facts are facts, and feel the poster is providing incorrect information or at least mis-leading information.

Jim

CWtheMan
12-12-2013, 05:38 PM
AFA tire pressures if you do not weigh your trailer and use the load inflation tables you are merely guessing at the correct pressure to use. Without knowing the actually weights of the trailer the "Big O" guy would be guessing too.

There is an industry standard to follow for plus sizing. I could post a short version to fit the OPs situation but I'm just going to post a reference. When using the reference just use the information that pertains to the individual situation you're involved with. Notice that there is auxiliary tire placards involved and that the different tire designs present their own problem because of vast load capacity differences.

http://www.tiresafety.com/images/Tire%20Replacement%20Manual.pdf

CW

BeerCan
12-12-2013, 05:44 PM
OK OK Lets not let this turn into that other forum. I freely admit that I am a willing participant in these tire threads and my posts are sometimes seen as inflammatory. I am trying, and will continue to try and keep the tone out of my posts and I think we should all try and do the same.

Otherwise we are going to have a lot of tire threads with nothing but argument. The will turn into multi page pissing matches and the OP question will usually be lost. I would submit that none of us are tire experts and none of us are law/regulation experts. We should approach these threads with that in mind and if we happen to disagree lets behave like humans.

I hated the vitriol on the other site and I would not like to see it here.

BeerCan
12-12-2013, 05:50 PM
I do not intend for my postings to be a challenge for you. When I get information from a builders expert I feel I can pass that information along to others. Here is a copy of the Michelin tire expert that some of the information used in my previous post came from. I'm sorry it conflicts with your information. But, all similar tires in the same size and load capacity are constructed as equals so the Michelin should be like all others in it's calss.

V/R
CW

"Hello,
Thank you for your email. We welcome the opportunity to serve you.
You are correct, the XPS Rib is a light truck tire.

It is not normally considered a replacement for the ST tires because the ST tires have a sidewall construction to help eliminate sway. A light truck tire does not have this construction.

We appreciate your business and thank you for choosing Michelin.

It is our goal to ensure that your issue has been resolved or your question answered to your satisfaction. If we can assist you further, please respond to this email or call us at 1-800-642-4354 (toll free) between 8:00AM and 8:00PM Eastern Time Monday through Friday or between 8:30AM and 4:30PM Eastern Time on Saturday.

Sincerely,

Mike
Consumer Care Department
Certified Michelin Product Expert"

In your letter to Michelin did you specify that the ST tire was radial or bias or did you just say "ST"? I think it would make a difference in how the question is answered, considering the bias and radial ST tires are very different. Just wondering. (in the nicest way :))


BTW Edited to add: My personal feeling as to why help lines like Michelin answer these questions in this way is not for technical reasons but for liability reasons. It is way easier and cheaper for them to answer this way than to have some errant piece of paper out there that will get them sued. Trust me they are afraid of the lawyers. They consider most consumers to dumb to understand the technical aspects and therefore just tow the party line so to speak.

JRTJH
12-12-2013, 06:34 PM
:soapbox:Thank you all for recognizing that there are different points of view and different ways to interpret data. That's partly why we have such "unique" situations in trying to manage our country, our states, our cities, our finances and even our forums... Let's try to not let personal agenda overcome personal restraint. We are all here for the purpose of exchanging better ways to use, maintain and enjoy our Keystone RV's.

Please don't lose sight of why you joined this forum. I'm hoping it wasn't to prove you're right in spite of anyone's evidence..... Let's all get along and by doing so, the forum will prosper.

Thanks guys (and gals) for understanding and for being civil !!!!!

Now I'll get off my soap box

Shake hands (if you can) and let's get back to RVing.

jtyphoid
12-13-2013, 08:00 AM
I, for one, am learning a lot from reading the different points of view regarding tires and wheels. In an ideal world, Keystone would only supply reliable systems for our trailers, but cost and weight are strong drivers toward 'barely good enough'. These sorts of detailed technical discussions help us to each make (hopefully) informed decisions to improve the safety, reliability, and performance of our RVs within our budget.

fred1609
12-19-2013, 09:08 PM
Very interesting reading. I am replacing the OEM tires on my 327RES and was considering Maxxis as the best option. Guess I have more things to consider.

CWtheMan
12-19-2013, 11:24 PM
Very interesting reading. I am replacing the OEM tires on my 327RES and was considering Maxxis as the best option. Guess I have more things to consider.

My tire posts often get poor reviews because of the assertiveness in my writing style. The quotes below are from the Goodyear Tire Care & Maintenance Guide. GY does a lot of writing about their tires and how to maintain them. These quotes are bottom line items that follow industry wide standards.

"Never fit tires with less load-carrying capacity than required by the vehicle's original equipment manufacturer".

"Before you replace your tires, always consult the vehicle owner’s manual and follow the vehicle manufacturer’s replacement tire recommendations". "You must make certain the replacement tires fitted to the vehicle have a load-carrying capacity equal to or greater than what the original equipment manufacturer specifies".

"When selecting tires that are different from the original equipment size, see a professional installer in order to make certain that proper clearance, load-carrying capacity, and inflation pressure are selected".

CW

p.s. All ST235/80R16E tires have a default load capacity of 3420# unless otherwise specified in your owner's manual or on the tire placard.