tires

[JWL]

Can an LT tire with load rating 3040# be used on a 7000# rated axle, if the toyhauler is not loaded at max? We do not carry toys and do not pack anything in the garage.

[f6bits]

Which trailer? At 1,000 lbs per axle under the axle's rating, I'd be concerned. Unless the axle was over-rated in the first place.

[Jim W]

Can an LT tire with load rating 3040# be used on a 7000# rated axle, if the toyhauler is not loaded at max? We do not carry toys and do not pack anything in the garage.

Somewhere on the trailer is a weight placard usually on the driver side by the king pin. On this card should be listed the trailer weight (GVW) and axle weights (GAW). This should list what the axle loads are for your trailer and tire size needed.

As an example my trailer built in Jan 10 was originally equipped with 15” tires. The loads on the axles were rated as 5200 LBS each with 6,000 LBS rated axles under the trailer. I upgraded the trailer to 16” ST tires when I bought the trailer new, so I could later replaced them with a 16” LT tire. Easier to find a 16” tire then a 15”LT tire in the correct weight loading that I needed.

I also have weight the trailer and truck to find out what my true weights are and I know that I can use the LT 245/75R/16E Michelins Rib tires with no issues.

Jim W.

[JWL]

Which trailer? At 1,000 lbs per axle under the axle's rating, I'd be concerned. Unless the axle was over-rated in the first place.
We have a 2012 raptor 300mp. Dual axles. Ship weight 11985#; Hitch 2690# ;carrying capacity 4515#.

[C130]

I have a 2011 Fuzion 322 which looks about the same size/weight as your Raptor. I just installed the Michelin XPS Ribs which have a 3040 pound rating I believe. I may be wrong but I trust these tires over the 3500 pound ST tires I had on it before. I just had it weighed and I'll look and see if they gave me the trailer axle weight. Technically, I believe they are under the axle rating but after researching tires for weeks I never heard one bad word about the Michelins. The manager at Discount Tire recommended them over anything they sold or could get in stock. We discussed the axle ratings and his opinion was that the Michelins were far superior to the ST tires irregardless of the 460 pound rating difference.

I went with what I thought was the best tire I could buy. The Michelins are outrageous in price but if they hold up well then I think they will be well worth it, if not, lesson learned I guess.

[JWL]

thanks c13!!!! We ordered the Michelin tires yesterday and will proceed with replacing the towmax tires. We have had the raptor 1.5 years and we are on the 2nd set of tires. Two of the new tires are already bad. Like you if this does not work out then lesson learned.

[Javi]

So you put tires with a combined load limit of 12,160 on a trailer with the potential of more than 13K on those axles... Stay on your diet and stay cool...
Most of us wish we had a safety margin not the other way around

[hankpage]

Also .... keep them inflated to 80psi. .... LT tires do not flex their walls as much as ST tires in tight turns so you want to keep them hard enough to slide instead of squirm. This was told to my installer by a Michelin tech when they mounted my tires. Very happy with them.

With your garage empty or reasonably loaded you should be fine but if you sell the trailer be sure to pass on what you have done to the new owners.

You will like the way the trailer tows with the LTs. Rolls much easier. JM2¢, Hank

[C130]

Yes, 80 psi is what I was told also and forgot to add that information. We towed it about a 100 miles each way and it towed great with the new tires. My current weight on the trailer axles was 10780 so assuming they were equally loaded that's 5390 so well below the tire limit.

My steer axle was 4960 and drive axle was 6720 so I need more cargo in the garage I assume. Gross weight was 22460 with wife, two kids, two dogs, tools and firewood in the bed and full tank of diesel, generator gas tank full also. I did not weigh the 5th wheel and truck separate.

[CWtheMan]

Please read Paragraphs S3 and S5.1.2 in the following reference.

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.aspx?reg=571.120

CW

[C130]

I get your point and I'm not saying it makes it okay but I'd bet 80% of the 5th wheels being pulled are pulled illegally. Like I stated earlier I'll take my chances with the Michelins over the Chinese made crap. I may be wrong but I'm willing to give them a try and I've yet to hear anything bad about them. More than I can say for the ST tires except the Maxxis. I may have tried the Maxxis if they had been in stock but I didn't want to wait.

Being legal by the tire weight limit doesn't necessarily equate to being safer in my opinion. I'm a stickler for being safe and legal but after doing hours and hours of research and finding out that basically no one agrees on tires I chose the Michelins. Besides the price I never heard one bad word about them which was more than I can say for pretty much every other ST tire.

[CWtheMan]

thanks c13!!!! We ordered the Michelin tires yesterday and will proceed with replacing the towmax tires. We have had the raptor 1.5 years and we are on the 2nd set of tires. Two of the new tires are already bad. Like you if this does not work out then lesson learned.

Going nearly 2000# total load capacity below a vehicles GAWR is unwise, at best.

Here are a couple of references. One from your trailer manufacturer and the other from your tire manufacturer. Michelin will not warranty tires when they are used in any misapplications. Keystone - under tire size - only recommends using tires of the same or greater size and load capacity.

All tires have their maximum load capacity displayed right on their sidewall. A 3042# tire will never be a proper fitment for any vehicle with 7000# axles. Please be safe and rethink it from a logical safety position.

There are other options better suited for your trailer’s GAWR. There are much higher load capacity ST/LT tires that will fit 16” rims.

http://www.keystonerv.com/media/728922/owners_manual_final_4-25-13.pdf

http://www.carbibles.com/Michelin_Promise_Owners_Manual.pdf

CW

[Javi]

I get your point and I'm not saying it makes it okay but I'd bet 80% of the 5th wheels being pulled are pulled illegally. Like I stated earlier I'll take my chances with the Michelins over the Chinese made crap. I may be wrong but I'm willing to give them a try and I've yet to hear anything bad about them. More than I can say for the ST tires except the Maxxis. I may have tried the Maxxis if they had been in stock but I didn't want to wait.

Being legal by the tire weight limit doesn't necessarily equate to being safer in my opinion. I'm a stickler for being safe and legal but after doing hours and hours of research and finding out that basically no one agrees on tires I chose the Michelins. Besides the price I never heard one bad word about them which was more than I can say for pretty much every other ST tire.
It isn't the Michelin brand that is the issue they do make great tires.... the issue is the load capacity of the tires you chose... when spending that much money to get tires that are better than the Towmax, why then get tires that are well below the safe limits for your trailer..

[C130]

Well, if I'm a 1000 pounds below the tire limit or at the limit then I should still be safe and still believe they are better than the 3500 pound tires that were on it. I understand the axle limit but how many are loaded at full capacity. The actual weight on the side of the toy hauler is actually six thousand and something, I'd have to look at the weight again.

I'll still stick with my reasoning that the Michelin is a safer tire at 3040 than the tires that were on or most any other ST tire at 3500. Steel casing which the ST tires do not have and even most of the LT tires don't have. I may be wrong but there seems to be unlimited threads about tire blowouts with the proper 3500 pound ST tires so a blowout is a blowout in my book. Find one thread with an LT Michelin XPS blowout or anything negative. Government DOT BS doesn't prove anything regarding safety in my book, it's just more legal crap for the lawyers. I'd bet than most any tire dealer will say the Michelin XPS is a way better, safer tire than the ST and yes I'm saying at the weight limit.

By the way, I'm in no way trying to argue the point and I 100% see your view point. I just believe the XPS tire is a better, safer tire than the ST. Like I said time will tell and if I'm wrong I'll post the results. Sad part is there are hundreds of threads on about every RV or trailer forum where no one agrees on this topic, everyone has a different opinion. About all I agree on with the ST tire is that the tire might be "legal". I'd bet that 80% of the same people towing are illegal in other areas of towing.

[KenBob]

Can an LT tire with load rating 3040# be used on a 7000# rated axle, if the toyhauler is not loaded at max? We do not carry toys and do not pack anything in the garage.

I see the the magic word in this question as "Can"

You "can" use almost any tire you want. Doesn't make it right or safe.

Lets try:

Should an LT tire with load rating 3040# be used on a 7000# rated axle, if the toyhauler is not loaded at max? We do not carry toys and do not pack anything in the garage.

I wonder what the answers would be.

[C130]

I've yet to talk to anyone that went from an LT tire to an ST. On the other hand, plenty have gone from an ST to an LT and I've yet to hear any of them complaining. Has anyone reading this thread had a blowout on an LT tire? Anyone switched from an LT to an ST? We can discuss opinions for days but actual statistics are the only thing that matters. I know not that many will read this and it won't be a realistic comparison but just wondering.

[Javi]

I've yet to talk to anyone that went from an LT tire to an ST. On the other hand, plenty have gone from an ST to an LT and I've yet to hear any of them complaining. Has anyone reading this thread had a blowout on an LT tire? Anyone switched from an LT to an ST? We can discuss opinions for days but actual statistics are the only thing that matters. I know not that many will read this and it won't be a realistic comparison but just wondering.
Again... it isn't the LT tire or the brand... it's the load range choice that everyone is talking about.... If you had chosen an LT tire with enough capacity there would be no talk.... Again.... not the brand.... not the type..... it's load range

[CWtheMan]

Well, if I'm a 1000 pounds below the tire limit or at the limit then I should still be safe and still believe they are better than the 3500 pound tires that were on it. I understand the axle limit but how many are loaded at full capacity. The actual weight on the side of the toy hauler is actually six thousand and something, I'd have to look at the weight again.

I'll still stick with my reasoning that the Michelin is a safer tire at 3040 than the tires that were on or most any other ST tire at 3500. Steel casing which the ST tires do not have and even most of the LT tires don't have. I may be wrong but there seems to be unlimited threads about tire blowouts with the proper 3500 pound ST tires so a blowout is a blowout in my book. Find one thread with an LT Michelin XPS blowout or anything negative. Government DOT BS doesn't prove anything regarding safety in my book, it's just more legal crap for the lawyers. I'd bet than most any tire dealer will say the Michelin XPS is a way better, safer tire than the ST and yes I'm saying at the weight limit.

By the way, I'm in no way trying to argue the point and I 100% see your view point. I just believe the XPS tire is a better, safer tire than the ST. Like I said time will tell and if I'm wrong I'll post the results. Sad part is there are hundreds of threads on about every RV or trailer forum where no one agrees on this topic, everyone has a different opinion. About all I agree on with the ST tire is that the tire might be "legal". I'd bet that 80% of the same people towing are illegal in other areas of towing.

From the pages of Michelin.

“WARNING: To ensure correct air pressure and vehicle load, refer to vehicle owner's manual or tire information placard on the vehicle.”

CW

[CWtheMan]

Find one thread with an LT Michelin XPS blowout or anything negative. Government DOT BS doesn't prove anything regarding safety in my book, it's just more legal crap for the lawyers.

First, I have to say this. Call or eMail Michelin of North America and ask questions about what you plan on doing. Sometimes answers from the builder carry more weight.

Second, Almost all Keystone RV trailers with 6000# axles were equipped with LT235/85R16E tires in model years 2004 & 2005. Although Michelin was not among them, Uniroyal - owned by Michelin - was. All of those LT tires suffered very similar failures as later models equipped with ST tires.

Third, Hypothetical; My Beagle dog is better at finding wild rabbits than my house cat. That cat has zero chance at replacing the dog.

C130, That's the designation of one of the most durable aircraft in modern times. Spent some time traveling around in them. I'll bet you wont find a load master using a lot of weight fudge factor when taking off from a place like Naval Air Station Alameda where the short runway ends in San Francisco Bay.

CW

p.s. The Michelin XPS Rib - a retreadable summer tire - has never been used as Original Equipment on any RV trailer. Therefore, they do not have a valid track record in that position.

This is not XPS Rib bashing. It's a durable tire that has an excellent record when used in the environment it was designed for. I've seen reviews where some high mileage ones were on their second recap cycle without aging out.

[C130]

Thanks, appreciate all of the information. Aircraft weight, well, that's about as estimated as anything I've ever seen in my life. Average weight of passengers, average weight of baggage, I'd bet they are off by several thousand pounds every takeoff. Military aircraft are probably more accurate than civilian but still not entirely accurate. Now, I know we are talking 155,000 pounds vs. 15,000 pounds so the variances are more important in the 15,000 pound range.

Getting way off topic and thanks for your service. I was an Air force guy, C130 pilot, hence the name. I've always used it on every forum and always available. I know exactly what you're saying and understand the concern with the LT tires and the weight limit of the XPS Ribs. I debated on it and basically couldn't get anyone to agree on which was the best tire, including the tire shops. I went with the one thing most agreed upon, the XPS Ribs being the best tire. We discussed the weight limit in detail and they agreed that even thought it was a lower rating tire they thought it was a much safer tire, even if loaded to the max of the 3500 pound ST tires. I spoke to the manager who sells this tire to lots of horse trailer owners and other people pulling trailers. While I don't know their axle limit I do know we discussed my axle limit in detail and the tires I installed. Thanks again and I always welcome constructive feedback and can always learn from others that have been RV'ing way longer than me.

[BeerCan]

C130 not to pile on but I agree with FE and Javi totally on this one. Just to add some info for you to have in the future, there are LT tires available that will fit your rims and cover the load rating. Anything in an "F" or "G" rating will work. I think your tire guy did you a disservice by recommending those tires from both a safety and a regulation standpoint.

Goodyear makes an excellent "G" rated tire but it is very expensive. Some alternatives are the products from Sailun and Geostar. Although they are mfr. in China they are so far getting good response in the field. I have the Sailun on my 5er and so far I am totally happy.

If you knew this info already then sorry but perhaps it will help someone else.

[mach22]

I replaced my 15" ST load range D chinese tires with Michelin Rib 16" load range E. I did it for safety but there was a n0ticable towing improvement. The ealer did tell me to set pressure at 65-70. No need to go to the max pressure.

[Jim W]

Thanks, appreciate all of the information. Aircraft weight, well, that's about as estimated as anything I've ever seen in my life. Average weight of passengers, average weight of baggage, I'd bet they are off by several thousand pounds every takeoff. Military aircraft are probably more accurate than civilian but still not entirely accurate. Now, I know we are talking 155,000 pounds vs. 15,000 pounds so the variances are more important in the 15,000 pound range.

Getting way off topic and thanks for your service. I was an Air force guy, C130 pilot, hence the name. I've always used it on every forum and always available. I know exactly what you're saying and understand the concern with the LT tires and the weight limit of the XPS Ribs. I debated on it and basically couldn't get anyone to agree on which was the best tire, including the tire shops. I went with the one thing most agreed upon, the XPS Ribs being the best tire. We discussed the weight limit in detail and they agreed that even thought it was a lower rating tire they thought it was a much safer tire, even if loaded to the max of the 3500 pound ST tires. I spoke to the manager who sells this tire to lots of horse trailer owners and other people pulling trailers. While I don't know their axle limit I do know we discussed my axle limit in detail and the tires I installed. Thanks again and I always welcome constructive feedback and can always learn from others that have been RV'ing way longer than me.

Thanks for your service to the Good old US of A.

Now I too use the Michelin XPS Ribs tires on my trailer, I am on my second year of use on them. They were installed on a 318SAB Cougar that was bought new in Feb 2010. I special ordered the trailer with 16” tires thinking the 16” St tire would be better than the Standard 15” ST tire that was being offered in 2010. Will in the summer of 2011 I had a tire failure, at the left front driver side that cost over $3K to fix, insurance covered most of it.

After the tire failure, I did a lot of research on what tires to buy for replacement coming to the conclusion that the Michelin XPS Ribs where the best option for me. These are an all position tire and can be used as a drive tire or a trailer tire and will provide superior service life. I had the tires mounted and balance and the trailer towing experience improved tremendously over the 16”St tires that were on the trailer.

I also heat check them with an IF gun at ever rest stop and I believe they run between 5 and 10 degrees cooler than the ST tires did on the 318SAB regardless of ambient air temps. I have also notice that the tires tend to retain the set air pressure longer than the ST tires did. Over winter storage I only lost 5 PSI of air pressure in 7 months. Retaining air pressure and running cooler will always improve tire life, so for me the Michelins Ribs are the best option to use if you can.

Jim W,